Whit Lanier is the Founder and CEO of Amplify Reviews, the market leader for collecting and publishing verified first-party and third-party reviews online. His previous startup was a healthcare review technology vendor that processed over 60 million patient reviews by 2021. Additionally, he has achieved a black belt in jujitsu and recorded music albums in two different bands.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Whit Lanier discusses how Amplify Reviews helps people
Why financial advisors fear customer reviews
Using customer reviews in financial advisor marketing
The importance of leveraging online reviews as a financial advisor
Amplify Reviews’ process for collecting reviews for clients
The experience of running reviews in the healthcare industry
Why Whit started a business in the same space twice
In this episode…
The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has recently updated its marketing regulations, and as a result, financial advisors can now incorporate testimonials and endorsements into their marketing strategies. Now the voice of your customers can do the marketing for you.
Nowadays, online reputations play a crucial role in shaping the prospects’ choices of firms. Marketing expert Whit Lanier says that by leveraging online reviews, you turn your clients into online promoters of your business. With a compliance-first approach, there is no easier or lower-risk way for advisors to embrace client testimonials and take advantage of the new opportunities.
In this episode of The Customer Wins, Richard Walker sits down with Whit Lanier, Founder and CEO of Amplify Reviews, to discuss how financial advisors can harness the power of online ratings and reviews. Whit explains how Amplify Reviews helps people, why financial advisors fear customer reviews, the value of using customer reviews in financial advisor marketing, and the process for collecting reviews for advisors.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
"Financial Planning Reimagined With Adam Holt of Asset-Map" on The Customer Wins
"Navigating Transitions: Expert Tips for Advisors With Ryan Shanks" on The Customer Wins
"[AI Series] Thriving as a Financial Advisor Using AI-Powered Tools With Gabe Rissman" on The Customer Wins
"Tips for Increasing the Financial Advisors-Clients Engagement With Blake Wood of Lumiant" on The Customer Wins
Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking by Malcolm Gladwell
Sponsor for this episode...
This is brought to you by Quik!
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Episode Transcript:
Intro 0:02
Welcome to The Customer Wins podcast where business leaders discuss their secrets and techniques for helping their customers succeed and in turn grow their business.
Richard Walker 0:12
Hi, I'm Rich Walker, the host of The Customer Wins where I talk to business leaders about how they help their customers win and how their focus on customer experience leads to growth. Some of our past guests have included AssetMap, FA match, YourStake, and Lumiant. Today I get to speak Whit Lanier, CEO and co-founder of Amplify Reviews. And today's episode is brought to you by Quik! the leader in enterprise forms processing. When your business relies upon processing forms, don't waste your team's valuable time reviewing the forms. Instead, get Quik! using our Form Xtract API, simply submit your completed forums and get back clean context-rich data that is 99.9% accurate. Visit quikforms.com to get started. Now before I introduce today's guest, I have to give a huge thank you to Paul Rankin, of advenntro. Paul and his team are great at bringing awesome products and companies together to solve problems of financial services. All right, Whit Lanier is the founder and CEO of Amplify Reviews, a platform focused on helping financial advisors embrace online reviews on their own terms. His previous startup was the leading healthcare technology vendor for enabling hospitals to publish verified patient ratings and reviews which by 2021, had processed over 60 million patient reviews. That's incredible. Whit has also earned a black belt in jujitsu as recorded music albums in two different bands. Whit, welcome to The Customer Wins.
Whit Lanier 1:48
Thank you Rich. Hello, happy to be here.
Richard Walker 1:50
I'm excited to talk to you, man, it gets such a great background. For those who haven't heard this podcast before I talk with business leaders about what they're doing to help their customers win, how they build and deliver a great customer experience and the challenges to growing their own company. Whit, I want to understand your business better. How does your company help people?
Whit Lanier 2:08
Well, great to be here again, Rich? Thank you. And thanks for the question. You touched on our background, which was the last startup that my co-founding team worked on, helped hospitals to take control of their own online reputations using data they were collecting, and publishing that as ratings and reviews on their own physician. In healthcare, that initiative got named patient experience transparency. And once it got started, it caught on very quickly so that now if any of your listeners go to one of their local health systems and look up a doctor, there's a very good chance that hospital's own website will have ratings and reviews that the hospital is collected. So transparency, I think has power and value to consumers in every industry. And now that the SEC has updated their marketing rules, so that testimonials and endorsements can be part of an advisors marketing strategy. We make it as easy and as safe and as compliant as possible for advisors to let the voice of their own customers help do their marketing for them.
Richard Walker 3:22
So there's so much in here because the complexity of privacy and regulation, and also emotion come into mind here, right? So let's go the emotion part, don't customers fear customer reviews. I mean, when if they get a bad one.
Whit Lanier 3:38
Do advisors fear customer reviews? I think it's very natural if you start from a baseline of not having any reviews online, to be a little bit apprehensive about what could happen. So yes. And I really want to talk about the broad opportunity, not specifically our platform, but I will say we give our clients the opportunity to collect feedback. And once they have collected it decide whether or not they're happy with it and want to publish it. They cannot cherry-pick only the good reviews. That's one thing that's very clear about the SECs marketing route. But basically, you collect customer feedback and then can make the decision do I want this customer feedback to become marketing? Or do I just want it to be a customer feedback initiative? And so from all of our experience in healthcare and my experience over the past two years in the financial advisor world, nobody uncovers all landmines that they were completely out of touch with the fact that their clients are really unhappy and miserable about a number of things. So, again, yes, it's natural to have a little bit of fear. We give you a glimpse into what you're going to get before the rest of the world gets it. And my view is, it's not great to just bury your head in the sand, if you have that fear, you're going to be doing a lot better if you find out what your customers think, and very likely that you will find they're overwhelmingly happy and happy to sing your praises for you.
Richard Walker 5:12
Yeah, I have to imagine actually, most clients are going to be on the happier side. Because this business is about serving clients. I mean, advisors really, truly care about their clients. And so they're working hard for them. But you always hear these stories of all somebody posted at negative reviews about me, and they just impersonated people, etc. So you're saying your platform can help them manage that better? if that even happens, I suppose.
Whit Lanier 5:36
Yes. So if we think about, so there is a benefit to the fact that this is one of the last industries to embrace online reviews, right. And that's been a regulatory issue. In fact, healthcare way back in 2014, when we got our first customers live on the platform we had then, in 2014, healthcare was considered late to the online reviews world. And here we are almost a decade later. But we can look to other industries to understand what happens as well as some best practices, even though there's a lot of unique facets to this industry. And so to your question, there are third-party review sites for other industries, that's Yelp, it's Google reviews. And then there's some that are industry-specific. So for healthcare, there was vitals and health grades and things like that. Every site might have their own policy and their own requirements for who can leave a review. But basically, in those open systems, you are a little bit vulnerable to anybody who wants to leave a review can leave a review. And it can often be difficult to prove or validate whether that is a legitimate review or an angry competitor. We encourage folks to start with what we think of as a closed-loop review system where if an advisor works with us, they can only request from their clients the opportunity to leave a review. And then because that flows through our dashboard, and back to their website, you can have confidence that there aren't bad actors writing reviews under any other pretext.
Richard Walker 7:16
Yeah, remember when I started Quik!, and we offered self-sign-up on our website. Let's see some of my customers were Peter Pan, the Hulk, Mickey Mouse, right? All these people testing it out. I don't know if there are competitors, or what and, and obviously, it didn't translate into public transparency. But I just think it's really interesting people do what they can do. And there's doxing, and there's just bad behaviors on the web. So in your system, you're collecting the points, the stars or the calculation, but the advisor then gets to choose if somebody's comments get published, or does that go through a compliance review or?
Whit Lanier 7:53
Yeah, I'm hesitant to say the advisor gets to choose, compliance definitely gets to influence it. The way we like to do it is, before anything goes live on your website, you should be clear on what your policy is going to be about what gets published. And again, if we think through the idea that transparency is a guiding principle in health care, I feel like transparency is also a guiding principle in the SEC and FINRA, right? You want consumers to be able to know what they're getting with an advisor in any situation. So we have transparency. And then we have the idea that we cannot cherry-pick. So what a well-defined policy will do is usually it says, here's how we collect the data. And it is our intention to publish everything we collect, unless one of the following happens. And there's room to customize this. But it's generally things that are obvious in hindsight, profanity, personally identifiable information. Some folks say if it's a gibberish or nonsensical comment, if it has a link to a third-party website. And then we also have, for talking about the SEC, they have seven general prohibitions for advertising. And so one of the examples I talked about is, you might have a really happy client who says, I've gotten a 15% annual return with these guys. And I know they can do the same thing for you. And as good as their intention is, they are in a position to be making a forward-looking statement about performance. So you might not be able to publish that comment because of a regulatory concern. But everyone visiting your website can read but your rule set is you have to abide by your own rule set and compliance is there to basically make sure you're sticking to your guns.
Richard Walker 9:40
Okay, so let me ask you, potentially a dumb question. If an advisor is doing a great job of building their reputation with their community, and finding clients successfully, they've grown their business, whatever, why should they add reviews at this point?
Whit Lanier 9:54
No dumb questions, right. I appreciate that. I will say, one thing that I've learned since starting in this industry, there is a small subset of advisors who do not have a focus on growth. They have a book of business that supports their lifestyle, and they're pretty happy with it. I'm going to carve those out for them, it is a harder argument, unless they're just worried about their ego and their vanity, right. But I think the vast majority of folks either have a true focus on growth, or would not mind if it was easy for them to get more clients. So I think of it this way, right? I don't want to drown you in stats, I bet you're familiar with a lot of these. I saw stat that around 93% of new clients for advisors come from referrals, a lot of those from personal referrals from existing clients, and then 18 to 20%, from centers of influence or other industries. And so to answer your question, I think the first thing is, if you were the advisor, who was saying, I have a decent lead flow, I have new clients coming in why do I need to invest in reviews? I'd say, question one is, do you think you're closing all of the prospects that get referred to you? And unless you're out of touch with reality, I would like to think you would concede that maybe the answer to that is no, that you're not closing all of them. And so my view is, generating net new leads is a lot harder than converting the leads that have made it to your doorstep or that have become aware of. And so the next thing to think about is, if one of your existing clients referred a prospect to you, do you think 10 out of 10 of those prospects reaches out to you, because I think if we look at our own behavior in terms of online shopping, or decision making, what we'll often do, let's say I have a list of five advisors that were referred to me, regardless of my intention, I'm going to Google all five of them, because maybe I just want to figure out how to get in touch with them, see what their headshot looks like, see what services they say what their fee structure is. However, if on that journey of Googling them, one of those five has a meaningful number of positive reviews. And the other four do not, for most consumers, the die is cast, right, that every other industry is just trained us that if you know that a meaningful number of people have left positive reviews, that social proof is really valuable, really impactful in terms of making people feel like they can have confidence in that decision.
Richard Walker 12:36
In other words, you're giving people a competitive advantage. I mean, if there's just not that high adoption of reviews, yet those who do it are going to have an advantage over those who aren't.
Whit Lanier 12:45
I definitely see it that way. And you sort of tee up another way to look at it, which is everybody knows the SEC marketing rules changed. And to paraphrase, you can now use testimonials and or endorsements. And it's fine if the format of those is online reviews. Now, yes, there's stipulations. And we don't need to dive into the weeds. I have not talked to a compliance person who's not happy with the way we structure our platform and our approach. But let's think about it. So we're about to go into 2024. If we think about three years from now, 2027, do you think it'll be uncommon for advisors to have online reviews given that they can, generally the way it's worked in other industries is, the same adoption curve everywhere, you'll have some early adopters, except to me with reviews, there's even more pressure to get on board once some of your competitors have them. Because I do think you'll see you start to lose business to folks who don't. So if we look on the tail end of that, there are going to be people who embrace reviews because they have to, to stop losing business. Right? Like, if you can get on board with the idea that it's inevitable, you can either stop losing business in the future, or you can have it as a competitive advantage in the near term, to win more of the business that's going to make a selection in the next three years.
Richard Walker 14:12
Yeah. Okay. So I'm wondering if you have any kind of sense of what percentage of people that you asked to give you a review, actually perform the review process?
Whit Lanier 14:22
I've got two data points from that. The most common way our clients collect reviews is they send out a very short email from our system, which with experience, we have tried to make it as clear and as short as possible to maximize response rate and then the review is just a star rating and a comment. It depends on your client. It depends on your customer base, but anywhere from 20 to 40% in a given ask is what I think you can expect give or take. And then the other way of looking at it sort of an industry statistic just asking consumers, I think 72% of people say I have left a review within the past year when I was asked to do it. And so you line those two up and know that you don't just get a single shot to ask for reviews. In any given ask, you may expect 20 to 40%. This is a advisors is sort of, and I'm sure you talk about this a lot on your podcast, it's sort of an intimate relationship, right? If your client is going to tell you everything about their finances, and everything about their life aspirations, they're going to have to trust you a little bit. And I think anytime you have a trusted relationship, you're going to increase the likelihood that somebody's going to be willing to do a small favor for you like writing a review.
Richard Walker 15:48
Yeah. So I know a lot of people use NPS score Net Promoter Score. And that is the one that asks you from a scale of one to 10, how likely are you to refer this business out? And that's not exactly what you're talking about? You're talking about reviews, but the NPS score often goes out monthly, or quarterly. So it's this constant thing. And if you get barraged with that, as a consumer, you start ignoring it. How frequently or how pervasive? Or how do you stick this into the messaging? Like, is it like on the websites that used to say, follow us on social media? Now, it's give us a review? What's the mechanism beyond just that initial email?
Whit Lanier 16:25
Well, it's a great question. So one of the things that we like to explain to clients is you if you have any existing process, we try and make it easy to incorporate our technology into your process. So very few of the folks that I speak with today, do any survey that is like a customer feedback survey. If you do, you can leave that process in place. And we can pull your survey data into our system and repurpose the most relevant rating for rating and the most relevant comment for a review. But I think your question is maybe more if you're starting from scratch, and there's a number of ways we can do it. So to avoid cherry-picking, we do encourage folks to ask every client at the outset. But if we use the math that we had talked about, maybe the easiest way to do it would be let's say, we'll do it on a calendar year. Since we're almost to the new year, January, we're going to ask everybody, let's say we have 100 clients get 30 reviews. What we could do in April, is ask the 70 who didn't write a review if they're willing to write one? Because yes, in an ideal world, you always want to have recent reviews coming in because consumers value recency in terms of being the most accurate reflection of the service they could get right now. But so you could reach out in subsequent timeframes to the non-responders of the initial ask. The other one that one of our clients does is they, throughout the year, tried to have meetings with their clients like regular check-in meetings. So if they were starting in January, they do an initial outreach in January. And then on February 1, they would say, who did we have an account review with during January? Those folks we're going to ask if they'll leave a review. And so they have a nice spread out throughout the year process where it's based on when they've had an interaction with the client.
Richard Walker 18:27
Yeah. So is it difficult or easy to automate this? I met with somebody I met somebody I messaged for the first time, and then trigger that survey to go out.
Whit Lanier 18:38
Sure, yes. So basically, again, if you think about our platform was initially designed for pretty large, complex organizations to leverage. So if we look at the hospital situation, they may have one person in charge of 1000s of physicians. And so we can do is that we have a number of types of integration we can do, the one that is sort of most broadly applicable is just an SFTP directory. So if our client can put a file in an FTP directory, we can go get it. And that may be the client name and email address, or it may have more information that we need to trigger that outreach. Less complex or less sophisticated clients may have another way. But as long as whatever your process is, in generate, all we really need is a name and an email address of whoever has had an interaction or a transaction over a given timeframe. We can import or ingest that to trigger that outreach human.
Richard Walker 19:42
Well, thanks for going so deep on this because I don't usually go so deep on the tech or how the product works. I just find this fascinating that you're bringing something to market that wasn't here before. And it's weird that it takes too long and financial services for products to catch up or tech to catch up. So let me ask you about your last company. You did this in healthcare. Did you sell that company? Did you walk away what happened?
Whit Lanier 20:04
We did. So we were like a lot of startups in that it took us a couple of pivots to find the best product-market fit in our space. So it was actually our third business model, that wound up getting the success that we talked about here. So in early 2014, we had our first client that was taking that healthcare survey data and publishing it as ratings and reviews. And by the end of that year, 2014, we had enough traction, enough interest, enough sort of demonstration that this was a thing that we wound up being acquired by one of those survey companies in healthcare.
Richard Walker 20:44
And then did you stick with them for a while?
Whit Lanier 20:47
We did it all of our founding team stayed, I think, for at least three years, which was longer than we had to stick around. But it was a great company. And it was an interesting opportunity. And we enjoyed that. We then started getting pulled away to other opportunities and didn't get back together until around 2021.
Richard Walker 21:09
Okay, so here's maybe the tough question, because I don't meet a lot of entrepreneurs who start the same business more than once. I mean, unless it's like a franchise or something. But look, forgive me, because looking at your business, I think it's brilliant. I think it's awesome. You've identified a market that needs this. But why do this again, how are you not born of this?
Whit Lanier 21:31
Great and very fair question, I think there are a couple of answers to that. May be relevant to your audience, one of the first ones is first go-round, we were venture capital backed. And so the mood and the vibe, and the trajectory of that company was somewhat typical of what you would see in somebody who raised a healthy amount of VC and had the pressure that comes along with it. It also, as I'm sure you know, as an entrepreneur, if you don't have an appetite to make a lot of mistakes on the way, then it's probably not for you. So we definitely had bumps in the road highs and lows, everything on the roller coaster, you could expect. Now that we have all of that under our belts, there were a number of things working in our favor for doing this again, number one is, we felt like we built a very good platform, the first go-round, and in rebuilding it with the wisdom of seven or eight years of experience, we could eliminate the mistakes that we made the first go round, make a few improvements, and then really look at you made me want to say this earlier, a lot of people when they hear what our business is, and maybe you have the same reaction, think it sounds like a feature, not a company, right? And what I tell people is that, yes, our functionality is narrow, but it is surprisingly deep, as evidenced maybe by the first part of our conversation today. And so, survey companies have consistently chosen not to try to build this functionality in-house because it is just complex enough to need its own attention. And similarly, some of the enterprises in our space might think, why would we get a vendor if we could build this in-house, what we saw in healthcare, is that a very small number of healthcare systems tried to build this functionality in-house. And with maybe one exception, all of them went to a vendor decided it was not worth the headache was not worth. I mean, you think about it, a top software developer is going to cost you a quarter of a million dollars a year, and to have them only focused all in right and to have them only focused on this, which is not mission critical for a hospital, it is not mission critical for a financial institution. And we try to make it as easy as possible, we stay on top of whatever the newest technology is. And we want to make it as easy as possible to integrate with your systems or your processes. So a little bit long-winded, I realized, but I think part of the reason we did this is we felt like to an extent we fly under the radar, we are just complex enough to be needed. But maybe not that sexy. So there's not tons of people trying to get into this space. And what I alluded to the first go-round is my co-founders and I really enjoy the second time through seeing what we do differently and how we do it differently. Because we're able to make the decisions ourselves rather than the investors that we had the first go-round.
Richard Walker 24:46
Now look, I have to be a little honest because in 22 years of running my company I feel like I've started it three times. I keep reinventing our tech we keep reinventing our focus and we're going through an evolution now. We are launching a brand new product in 2024, this episode's probably going to come out around the time that's being launched. And we have another product coming out in mid-year, maybe even in the first quarter. So we're introducing two potential new revenue streams for our business. And that just gets me excited, because we're solving problems that people don't want to solve for themselves, for the way they're solving it for themselves is repetitive, manual, expensive, not best of breed. And you're right, when you focus on your niche, you get to create the best-of-breed solution and keep improving upon it innovating on it. And your customers are the beneficiaries of that very little expense. Right?
Whit Lanier 25:36
Well, and I'm sure you know, it's awesome. If you're launching two new products next year, and in the back of your mind, you have to know that one of those may become the business, you never know where customer need is going to pull you. So think it's a great mindset to be constantly trying to innovate and release new things. So that if the market shifts, or if a new need emerges, you're well-positioned to take care of your niche.
Richard Walker 26:04
I tried to answer a question that I read in a book a long time ago, which is, Who is Going To Put Me Out Of Business? Or What is Going To Put Me Out Of Business? And the answer is I am, I'm gonna figure out how to put my old business out of business and reinvent our business that we keep moving into the future. So Whit, let me ask you another question about this. Oh, man, I just lost my train of thought on this. So I want to go to AI because to me, that's one of the biggest futures of tech, how do you see AI playing a role in what you're doing or impacting experience of providing these types of reviews?
Whit Lanier 26:36
It is a popular topic, popular question. I guess my first train of thought in response is that verified client reviews are kind of the anti-AI in terms of part of the value of our system is letting consumers know, we are confident these were written by humans that are actual clients of this advisor. And so I think one thing that we may see in the world of AI is an increasing hunger for things that are uniquely human. What I meant to say earlier, early at the beginning of the podcast, you touched on emotion, right? And I'm sure you know, there's a field of research that well, we like to think of ourselves as rational beings, decision making actually ultimately comes down to emotion, right? All the rational reasons to do something, and then when it comes down to it, it's which one makes you feel better about making the decision. So that human element of reviews, I think, is part of what makes them very appealing, and may make them more appealing in a growing era of AI. But I don't want to dodge the question completely, I think there's actually two ways I can envision AI could help. One is down the road, when advisors have a meaningful number of online reviews, AI could do a great job of summarizing the themes of what you see in those reviews, so that a consumer wouldn't have to read every single one of those reviews, they could see, this advisor gets high marks for divorce, retirement, working with tech companies, and is lacking in this area, which I think could be really valuable to users. And I think Amazon may already be doing that today. And then the other one, honestly, is maybe less so for our solution in our main use case. But I think AI could probably do a good job of detecting if reviews were written by AI as a whole body of reviews. And I think consumers would find a lot of value in that as well. But I come back saying at its core, social proof, and client reviews are a uniquely human element. And that is a big part of where their value comes from is I can see this is a very capable advisor, I can see very clearly this is a capable adviser. How does it feel being a client of those two? And that's what I think reviews help people see.
Richard Walker 29:04
So I have this crazy notion that 10 years from now, we won't give reviews will give sentiment, the AI is going to watch us and feel our emotion and just say oh, this is how you feel about this product.
Whit Lanier 29:14
That is fascinating. Do you know the psychologist Paul Ekman?
Richard Walker 29:20
I don't know. No,
Whit Lanier 29:22
You would have heard him from Malcolm Gladwell's book Blink. I actually thought the little sliver about him was so interesting. I wouldn't read his book. His specialty is coding emotions from facial expressions. So it's fascinating, but it also makes it seem like your crazy idea is theoretically possible if you get AI trained up enough on the micro expressions that we see in different people.
Richard Walker 29:46
Yeah, for sure. Man, I'm really enjoying this conversation, but we're gonna have to wrap this up here in a minute before I ask my last question, what is the best way for people to find and connect with you?
Whit Lanier 29:58
So the company is called Amplify Review, we've got the .com domain for Amplify Reviews, you can find me on LinkedIn. My name Whit Lanier is pretty Google trouble. So any which way you find me, I'll be happy to hear from you.
Richard Walker 30:12
Awesome. All right, so here's my last question considering this is your first company in the financial services world, who's helped you the most to enter this arena?
Whit Lanier 30:21
That's a great question. And yes, it's been interesting, I've had enough of a career that I haven't nice network, and a lot of them are in other industries. So I will say being new to the industry. It's funny. There's one networking group that I consistently attend their events, and it's a little bit surprising. It is called Females and Finance. And they are still a very open and welcoming community, to anybody who wants to join that community. So the woman who started that organization is Sheryl Hickerson. I spoke with Sheryl over a year ago, the first time and just rattled off her head, here's, I don't know, five plus people that are the best people for you to talk to. And so despite what I think, is a good network, I was a complete stranger to these people. And you know the way networking works, those parlayed themselves into a bunch of great introductions into a bunch of great opportunities and a meaningful amount of the revenue that we had had. In fact, they didn't think about it right at first, Paul from Adventro is how I met you, and Females and Finance is how I met Paul's partner, Wim. So I have to give Sheryl a shout out for the organization she's built and the value that she's helped me get in terms of starting my financial advisor specific network.
Richard Walker 31:47
Now you're actually bringing awareness to the concept that a women's group doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a female only membership. Yeah, and you can set yourself apart. That's great. All right. I want to give a huge thank you to wit linear, CEO of Amplify Reviews for being on this episode of The Customer Wins. Go check out Whit's website at amplifyreviews.com. And don't forget to check out Quik! quikforms.com where we make processing forums easier. I hope you've enjoyed this discussion will click the like button, share this with someone and subscribe to our channels for future episodes of The Customer Wins. Whit thank you so much for joining me today.
Whit Lanier 32:24
Thank you Rich really enjoyed it. Appreciate it.
Outro 32:28
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