Transforming Advisor Engagement Through AI With Spenser Segal

Spenser Segal is the Founder and CEO of ActiFi, a company that provides premier engagement solutions for advisors in the wealth management industry. He is recognized as one of the top 25 most influential people by Investment Advisor magazine and has over 20 years of experience in the financial services industry. Before ActiFi, Spenser held management positions at American Express Financial Advisors, Dain Rauscher, Barrington Capital Management, and BigCharts. He is a Certified Financial Planner and an Accredited Investment Fiduciary Analyst.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

• [2:39] Spenser Segal articulates ActiFi's mission of enabling financial institutions and advisors to offer world-class advice efficiently and profitably

• [4:05] How ActiFi assists financial institutions in improving advisor engagement and organic growth

• [5:09] The key weakness ActiFi solves for advisors and how it strengthens their business

• [8:39] How motivation, ability, and prompts can dramatically influence the adoption of new technologies and behaviors

• [10:18] Leveraging executive reporting and robust analytics to pinpoint what's working and what's not in advisor engagement

• [13:26] Challenges wealth management firms face when trying to encourage growth among their advisors

• [18:09] The role of artificial intelligence in ActiFi and the wealth management industry

• [25:51] Spenser teases his upcoming book aimed at leaders in wealth management, addressing the integration of AI in the industry
  

In this episode…

Are advisors fully leveraging the myriad of solutions in the wealth management industry? By harnessing the power of AI, from real-time customer insights to automation, you can catapult advisor efficiency and client satisfaction to the next level. How are personalization and strategic engagement key to the success of financial institutions?

Spenser Segal, a Certified Financial Planner, delves into how he revolutionizes the wealth management industry by providing a SaaS-based engagement platform that helps financial institutions and advisors deliver top-tier, integrated advice efficiently. By honing in on the top three solutions from potentially overwhelming options, his model ensures that firms can maximize their offerings and achieve organic growth. Spenser's approach focuses on creating a collaborative environment where advisors are understood and their goals met, fostering a symbiotic relationship between them and institutions. This, in turn, enhances advisor retention and overall client satisfaction.

In this episode of The Customer Wins, Richard Walker interviews Spenser Segal, Founder and CEO of ActiFi, about enhancing advisor engagement in wealth management. Spenser discusses how ActiFi assists financial institutions in improving advisor engagement and organic growth, how motivation, ability, and prompts can dramatically influence the adoption of new technologies and behaviors, and the challenges wealth management firms face when encouraging growth among their advisors.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

• Quik!

• Richard Walker on LinkedIn

• Spenser Segal on LinkedIn  

• ActiFi 

• "Winning the B2B Sales Game Through Specialization With Richard Walton" on The Customer Wins 

• "Transforming Financial Advising With Simplicity and Tech With Adam Dell" on The Customer Wins 

• "Redefining Productivity in Business With Steve Miksta" on The Customer Wins 

• "How Financial Advisors Can Become Great Business Owners" on The Customer Wins 

Quotable Moments:

• "We help advisors achieve their goals, making it a win-win for both advisors and financial institutions by serving the end client effectively."

• "Behavior occurs when motivation, ability, and a prompt come together."

• "The variable that most correlates to advisor retention is when the firm helps an advisor achieve a goal that matters to them."

• "If your product is too hard to use, it doesn't work."

• "AI is the very worst it will ever be today; it's only going to get better and more robust."

Action Steps:

1. Understand and prioritize advisor needs: Taking the time to comprehend the specific needs and goals of advisors truly can significantly enhance engagement and retention. 

2. Implement a simplified engagement process: Streamlining the user experience by narrowing down multiple solutions to a few key options can boost advisor productivity. 

3. Adopt the B=MAP model: Utilizing BJ Fogg's model, which combines motivation, ability, and prompt, can drive behavioral change among advisors and better foster the adoption of new technologies and processes.

4. Invest in tailored AI solutions: Encouraging financial firms to develop AI systems that cater to the specific needs within their organization can enhance efficiency. 

5. Select the right advisors for growth initiatives: Identifying and focusing on advisors who are motivated and open to growth can maximize the impact of engagement efforts. 

Sponsor for this episode...

This is brought to you by Quik!

At Quik!, we provide forms automation and management solutions for companies seeking to maximize their potential productivity.

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Our vision is to become the leading forms automation company by making paperwork the easiest part of every transaction.

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Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:02 

Welcome to The Customer Wins podcast, where business leaders discuss their secrets and techniques for helping their customers succeed and in turn grow their business.

Richard Walker 0:16 

Hi, I'm Rich Walker, the host of The Customer Wins where I talk to business leaders about how they help their customers win, and how their focus on customer experience leads to growth. Some of my past guests have included Richard Walton of Outsell, Adam Dell of Domain Money, Steve Miksta of Oppty and Cody Foster of Advisors Excel. Today, I'm speaking with Spenser Segal, founder and CEO of ActiFi. And today's episode is brought to you by Quik!, the leader in enterprise forms processing. When your business relies upon processing forms, don't waste your team's valuable time manually reviewing the forms, instead, get Quik!. Using our Form Xtract API, simply submit your completed forms and get back clean context-rich data that reduces manual reviews to only one out of 1000 submissions. Visit quikforms.com to get started. Now, before I introduce today's guest, I want to give a big thank you to Wim Van Lerberghe, founder and partner at Advintro and also a guest on this show. Go check out their website at advintro.com to see how they help FinTech companies scale through business development and sales.

Spenser Segal, our guest today is the founder and CEO of ActiFi, a premier provider of engagement solutions for advisors in wealth management industry, spanning over 100 wealth management firms. With over 30 years of expertise in financial services, Spenser's journey commenced with his roles as a financial advisor, earning his CFP designation in 1992. He played a pivotal role as a part of the founding team of Big Charts, an eminent online financial information service which CBS Market Watch later acquired. His career includes leadership roles at Dean, presently, RBC Wealth and American Express financial advisors, which is currently known as Ameriprise. Spenser has presented over 50 conferences. Has been recognized as one of the top 25 most influential people in the financial services industry by Investment Advisor magazine. He is our guest today. Welcome Spenser.

Spenser Segal 2:19 

Well, thank you for that wonderful introduction.

Richard Walker 2:22 

No, I'm glad to have you. So for those who haven't heard this podcast before, I talk with business leaders about what they're doing to help their customers win, how they built and deliver a great customer experience, and the challenges to growing their own company. Spenser, let's understand your business a little bit better. How does your company help people?

Spenser Segal 2:39 

Well, it starts with our mission, which is to enable financial institutions and their advisors to deliver world-class integrated advice more effectively and profitably. And the way we do that and help our institutional partners who are engaging their advisors is to understand their advisors needs, put a plan together to help their advisors achieve their goals and execute on that plan.

Richard Walker 3:04 

So is this education? Is it technology? Is it bringing things together that help streamline process and workflows?

Spenser Segal 3:12 

It's a SaaS-based engagement platform. So in other words, we're helping the financial institution do for their advisors, what they recommend their advisors do with the client? IE, sort of financial planning software for advisors, so to have kind of an authentic and congruent relationship with their advisors.

Richard Walker 3:36 

Okay, I know a lot of firms go out and acquire new advisors as a way of growing. But obviously, if they can help their advisors be better, what they're doing that is organic growth and naturally helps them grow. So I presume you are helping the advisors engage better with their audience, so that they can grow. What does this actually look like? I mean, does one of your institutional customers have a dedicated team that just does this kind of consultative approach and uses the technology, or how do you describe your process?

Spenser Segal 4:05 

Yeah, exactly. Well, the financial institutions will have a group of relationship managers. There they go, by all sorts of different titles, but their job is to retain and grow and have the advisor leverage their platform as effectively as possible, and so we help them install this process whereby they start by understanding the advisors needs, establishing goals and a plan, and then executing the plan and being the quarterback to get them to The resources that are needed to fulfill on their goals. So it's really a win-win scenario. You're helping the advisor win, and in the process, the financial institution is winning all along, serving the end investor client more effectively in bringing together a more holistic and robust advice proposition for the end consumer.

Richard Walker 5:02 

Okay, so what is the deficiency the advisor has that you're solving for? Like, what is the weakness that you're helping build a strength with?

Spenser Segal 5:09 

I mean, the big weakness is a lot of our clients have so many different solutions, whether they're products or services or programs or consulting, they might have 300 different opportunities to engage the advisor. What we're doing is helping them narrow it down to the top three. So of the 300, here are the three specifically you should be working on whether it's leveraging a particular product, leveraging a service, leveraging a program, doing things that the institution has as value-added capabilities to the different advisors that they serve.

Richard Walker 5:53 

Okay, so these firms are putting a huge investment in their infrastructure and their capabilities and their processes, etc, and you're helping them get advisors ingrained with that and engaging with it more so they're more productive and more effective in what they have to do. Is what I'm getting from this.

Spenser Segal 6:09 

Exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, if you have a capability and the advisor isn't utilizing it, there is no value that's being created. Unless and until they're engaging and leveraging that capability, there is no value creation.

Richard Walker 6:25 

So you're speaking my language. I talk about this all the time in two different ways. One is, if you have technology that's not adopted, it's worthless. You're just not getting the value from it. And the second one is part of the creed of my own company, which is, if you can't get help with a product you're using, then the product is worthless too, because you don't know what to do with it, you don't know how to use it. So it's great to hear that you guys are a platform to help companies do that. I'm kind of curious, on a different perspective, do firms use this to push agenda, like to push sales of certain products, or go into other markets and kind of hone people into a specific market segment or anything like that.

Spenser Segal 7:05 

Generally, no, I mean, generally, they're looking at meeting their advisors where they're at. So, we recommend they start with a true understanding of where the advisor wants to go and where they're at, and then co create a plan to get them there. And along the way, they shouldn't necessarily have a preference for this solution or that solution. The preference should be for serving the advisor more effectively in a way that they will be more loyal to the firm. And actually, one of the interesting things we've seen over time is the variable, and we've done a couple of different studies with our clients, the variable that most correlates to advisor attention is when the firm helps an advisor achieve a goal that matters to them. So a, they have to actually understand goals that matter to the advisor, and then B, they have to play some role in being a catalyst to helping them achieve that goal. And when that is in place, retention skyrockets.

Richard Walker 8:15 

Nice. Okay, so, I always think about customer experience, and therefore user experience, in terms of technology, and a lot of times, adoption is because of a bad experience. How does your product or service help companies that don't have the best or optimal experience overcome that so that they can get the adoption with their advisors? Is that a factor even?

Spenser Segal 8:39 

Yes, it is. I mean, advisors will work harder when they're motivated. If someone isn't motivated to do something, they won't do it. I mean, it doesn't matter how easy you make it. If they don't care, they're not going to do it. I'm a big fan of the B equals m, A, P, model, BJ Fogg, I don't know if you've ever heard of BJ Fogg. He's the head of Stanford's behavioral lab, and actually, Instagram came out of that. But BJ Fogg is a behavioral scientist, and he has this formula, B equals M, A, P, so it's behavior occurs when motivation and ability and a prompt come together at the same time. And when you're above the line prompts always work, and when you're below line, they never work. So, if your product is too hard to use, it doesn't work, if the user isn't motivated to use it, it doesn't work. So those things have to be in alignment, where the motivation is there, the ability is there, and then there's an appropriate prompt that's when behavioral change occurs.

Richard Walker 9:52 

I love that. That's great way to look at it. Because another thing I'm sure that your product must be uncovering the weaknesses of the solutions that these firms are rolling out because you said the A was ability to use it, right? So how many times is it they realize, oh my gosh, we need to do more training. We need to help the teams of advisors learn this product or this process better. Is that coming out of your products?

Spenser Segal 10:18 

Absolutely, we have a lot of executive reporting where we're, really measuring where a goal is established, where it's executed, where it's not executed, and we're able to drill down and as to the reasons why something isn't happening. Where they're saying they're going to do it, but they're not doing it. We have a lot of robust analytics around that.

Richard Walker 10:42 

That's neat. Spenser, let me ask you a different question. You've been doing this a long time, right? How old is ActiFi now, little over 20 years? Yeah, you've been doing this a long time. What do you think really are the ingredients of an excellent user experience and customer experience from the firm serving the advisor's perspective. Because we talk a lot about the advisor serving the client, the investor, but what about from the firm serving the advisor?

Spenser Segal 11:11 

The big thing is relevancy to the advisor. One of the things that we've done to dramatically enhance our user experience over the years is to make it very much use case specific, not having a bunch of top nav, left nav, right nav, not having much nav at all, where there's just specific dials, if you want to do this, and this can be advisor transition, business planning, a growth program, whatever the this is, make it very specific, so the user experience changes significantly, and the tiles that are available to the advisor depending upon what particular use case is enabled for that particular advisor. So tuning it and having fewer options and a greater degree of simplicity, is how you really enhance the user experience. It's just we try to the term I use is dummy proof. There's three tiles. There's no nav. You need to focus on tile, 1, 2, 3, anybody can figure that out, right?

Richard Walker 12:20 

Yeah. So who makes the decision of what the advisor needs is that coming from the engagement team working with the advisor to build that plan. Is that how that's decided, or do you hire other things figuring it out?

Spenser Segal 12:32 

Yeah, there's multiple ways. Some of it is advisor-led, they're opting in. Some of it is coach-led, and some of it is using analytics that are institutionally driven. They're saying, hey, we want to segment these 100 advisors and have this appear based on these characteristics. So, it's all of the above, any one of those methodologies, or in some cases, all three are in place with some of our institutional clients.

Richard Walker 13:06 

Okay, what are you hearing from your clients in terms of the biggest challenges they face? Is it a group, maybe it's the advisors who figured it out and they don't really want to grow they love their business. Is it the new guys? Is it the old guys? And I don't mean to categorize anybody negatively, just what are you hearing is the biggest challenge that firms are facing?

Spenser Segal 13:26 

Well, I think there's a couple of challenges. One is there's just a lot coming at them, especially the folks in the home office. And there's certain things that might be regulatory changes. It might be infrastructure changes, those sorts of things, and in other cases, it might be understanding who to work with. And the two things that I always encourage our clients to focus on is one, picking the advisors who are receptive to working with you. If there's an advisor that's 72 years old, they've basically retired. They have told you, their priority is their golf game and spending time with their grandkids. They have zero interest in adding new clients. They like serving their existing clients. You're not going to get a lot of lift working with that particular person. So advisor selection is really key, and I bucket advisors into three categories when it comes to growth specifically. One is advisors who say they want to grow and really want to do the work, are willing to spend the money.

Two, advisors that say they want to grow, but don't want to work hard or spend money or extend effort. They want to grow if it's extremely easy and they don't have to do much work. And then the third bucket is advisors that don't want to grow. They're just very happy serving the clients where they're at. And so that's, that's point one is you have control over that. And then point two, the other thing you have control over is, understanding how they want to grow. So for the ones that do want to grow, making sure, growth can mean a lot of things. Growth can mean I want to deliver more advice solutions or other solutions to existing clients. Growth could mean hey, I want to acquire new clients. Growth can mean hey, I want to acquire another practice and tuck them in. Those strategies are completely different, deepening wallet, share with existing clients, acquiring new clients, and M&A, you need to really understand what's the appropriate strategy, and they're different for every practice and advisor.

Richard Walker 15:53 

Yeah, I can see that for sure. Do you see clients of yours mandating solutions, and do you have an opinion on whether that works or not?

Spenser Segal 16:06 

I don't generally. There's certain things that have to be mandated, ie, compliance. You can't have 50 ways to open a new account, like certain foundational things, where you get absolutely no credit when you do it well, and it's a huge pain in the neck if you don't do it well, there needs to be one way, right. And our solutions are geared to more sophisticated solution mapping, where it's not, you know, this is a regulatory mandate, or This is AML, or that sort of thing. So generally, I don't see those things being mandated necessarily.

Richard Walker 16:50 

Yeah. I mean, it does seem that you fit between the goals of the firm and the goals of the advisor, both of which are achieving focused and leading where they're trying to go, envision and where they won't want to go, not have to do it this way. I've always found it interesting when firms do mandate and certain things, like how you open an account, you have to use this service, or this e-sign service, or whatever, it totally makes sense, and that's one of the reasons we've seen high adoption with our product. But there's other times where there's not high adoption. I've wondered, what is the firm doing, and how do they encourage people to adopt certain practices and policies?

Spenser Segal 17:26 

I think a lot of it comes back to that B equals M, A, P, formula. The motivation has to be there, the ability has to be there, and you have to prompt them effectively at the right time, and when those three things match up, it works every time, and when they don't, it doesn't work. So that's the key. But picking the right advisors on the right topics dramatically increases your probability of it happening and driving adoption.

Richard Walker 17:59 

Yeah, for sure. So you said prompts, this always makes me think about chatGPT and artificial intelligence. Where does artificial intelligence fit in your world?

Spenser Segal 18:09 

Well, as matter of fact, I'm writing a book on this topic. We use it internally, extensively to help make us more efficient. We have a chatbot where users can go to understand how to use our software more effectively, and clients are engaging with that. But I do think there's going to be significant and profound implications for our industry. And the good news is, I do think that demand for advisors is going to increase. I do think there'll be the back office the non-high human value-added activities will be increasingly automated. Things that an algorithm can do quite a bit better than a human will, an algorithm will do those things over time, and there'll be more automation in our industry. When it comes to the advisors and the client-facing folks, I think it's going to really open up their ability to deliver more value to consumers and to their end clients, more effectively, serve more clients, deliver more value. I think there's a bright future. There's a lot of risks and downsides that need to be navigated as well.

Richard Walker 19:30 

Yeah, for sure. Running a tech company, I think so much about artificial intelligence and where it's going to lead us, how it's going to impact our industry, our customers, et cetera. Is this a constant investment for you guys to put?

Spenser Segal 19:44 

Yeah, we're investing considerably in artificial intelligence, and we're working on copilot systems and other things, so we're spending a lot of time on it.

Richard Walker 19:56 

Yeah, I think one of the fascinating things, again, being a software company, is how can it augment our ability to produce product? We have such a long list of feature requests, and we're looking, well, not looking, we're working right now to implement AI within our infrastructure so that our software developers can move faster and get code done faster. Are you using any tools like that for your team?

Spenser Segal 20:20 

Yeah, our dev team is using some tools. I don't know all of the things that are being done, necessarily, but we are trying to be more efficient and use it very strategically.

Richard Walker 20:33 

Yeah, where are you seeing your customers use it?

Spenser Segal 20:41 

Our customers aren't using it a ton, I think mostly in the back office, some note-taking apps, things like that, some real obvious use cases. I think the number of use cases are going to expand greatly over the next few years. I mean, one of the things that we all need to remember is AI is the very worst it will ever be today, it's only going to get better and more robust. I'm a big fan of Kurt Ray Kurzweil and the Law of Accelerating Returns and seeing where that's going to go. I don't think anyone can predict with a high degree of accuracy other than to say it's going to get a lot better fast.

Richard Walker 21:27 

Yeah, no, I hadn't actually thought of it from that perspective. I just keep thinking it gets better and better. I hadn't thought it's the worst it's ever going to be right now. There's a thought that I've been having a lot about, which is, and I don't know exactly the state, but somebody said maybe it was Eric Schmidt, said that AI has already learned all human-produced content that there is to learn. Now, I don't think it learned department of defense plans for the stealth bomber, things that are totally confidential and private, but all the public books and plays and content that's out there, it's learned. So what's left? And I think what's left is us.

Spenser Segal 22:03 

What's left all the domain specific knowledge that's behind firewalls and behind, that's not publicly available anywhere other than inside the company. What it hasn't learned is the detail, if detailed manuals for HVAC systems. And what I predict will happen is you'll see a proliferation of vertically focused AI models that are trained on proprietary and company-specific information and tuned to the people affiliated with that particular company to drive higher quality and more efficient advice and execution.

Richard Walker 22:51 

Yeah, and look, maybe this seems obvious to some people and maybe not to others. I think companies have to make the investment to build that content library to train the models with purposefully. I think we have to set aside okay, here's all our marketing information, what we know about our personas, our customers, their feedback, their interactions with us, etc. Here's what we know in the sales process. Here's what we know about the product designs, code, whatever, because using that with a chatGPT or whatever, large language model is going to make it work better for you and your purposes, whatever that might be.

I was just talking to my COO yesterday about this. We work with an outside agency who builds some content for us, and obviously some of it's AI-generated, and He peels that apart and changes it, because it's not right. I said, why don't we give them the marketing content, then they produce better content for us, wouldn't they? Are you guys doing that? Have you thought about like, how to run your company in this manner?

Spenser Segal 23:48 

Yeah, we're spending a lot of time thinking about that and doing that, organizing our knowledge base, organizing our content, making sure that it's effective in terms of being consumed by training particular models and so forth.

Richard Walker 24:07 

Yeah. So then it makes me wonder, can your product do that for your customers? Can it capture those coaching sessions and that engagement process and help them engage with the next advisor better and better? And I'm sorry, it's your company. I don't know what you're doing, but it just makes me think about all the possibilities of this stuff.

Spenser Segal 24:25 

Yeah, I mean, not yet, but that's potentially on the horizon where, I do think you need to crawl, walk and run. And the crawl phase is really expert systems, you have to have the knowledge base, you have to have enough data to train the models. And I think that's more in the run phase. I think very few clients are at the point where they're willing and able to run. And there's also some regulatory, risk, data governance issues that really need to be handled in a very thoughtful, robust way, make sure that there's solid data governance, solid client confidentiality, that sort of thing. So, like I said, I think it will occur faster than we think it will, but it won't occur fast, if you will. I mean, I think people are going to, rightfully so, take a relatively cautious approach and just make sure, from a safety and security standpoint, everything's in place.

Richard Walker 25:39 

Yeah, hey, I meant to ask, who's the audience for your book? I've published two books myself, but they weren't for our industry, so most people don't know about them per se. They were personal passions of mine. But who's your audience for your book?

Spenser Segal 25:51 

Audience is really Wealth Management leaders, people who are leading wealth management firms large and small. So whether it's a large RIA, a large IBD, or a big bank, those sorts of folks. It's the AI, the working title is The AI Enabled Future of Wealth Management: A Leaders Guide. So it's specifically designed for leaders of well, how do you navigate this from a security standpoint, from a usability, from a customer experience standpoint, I'm going to be breaking all of that down in the book.

Richard Walker 26:29 

Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, congrats, and keep going. Can't wait to see it. We're gonna have to wrap up. But I have another question. And before I ask that, what's the best way for people to find and connect with you?

Spenser Segal 26:41 

Well, you can email me, spenser@actifi.com. I'm Spenser ActiFi on Twitter or X, if you will. I still can't get used to X.

Richard Walker 26:55 

I still can't call it X.

Spenser Segal 26:58 

I'm not that active on Twitter or our website, www.actifi.com so lots of ways to get a hold of me.

Richard Walker 27:10 

Yeah, ActiFi is A, C, T, I, F, I for those who are listening. Okay, this question I love to ask, who has had the biggest impact on your leadership style and how you approach your role today?

Spenser Segal 27:28 

Well, I've been very fortunate. I have two mentors. One, Doug Lenick. Doug was a boss of bin at American Express financial advisors, and a matter of fact, interestingly, he's also been a mentor to my son. My son works for his successor company thing to perform, and he's mentored my son. So he's got a couple of generations. Doug's in his 70s now, but he's had a profound impact on my leadership style and techniques. The other one is John Van Der Hayden. John was my boss at RBC, and really taught me the way of the corporate world. I was bright-eyed Bucha, the young person from an entrepreneurial background. I didn't really understand how larger organizations worked. And he was infinitely patient with me and helping me understand that why I could do certain things and not do other things, and how to navigate the landscape in terms of being effective versus being efficient.

Richard Walker 28:41 

Awesome. That's such an important lesson. I cut my teeth at Arthur Andersen and got exposed to big company after big company after big company, and boy, did I have some failures there. You learn, and I feel like I'm still learning. So I love asking this question, because I love hearing about mentors like this Spenser.

Spenser Segal 29:00 

Well, thank you. Yeah.

Richard Walker 29:02 

All right, I want to give a big thank you to Spenser Segal, founder and CEO of ActiFi, for being on this episode of The Customer Wins. Go check out Spenser's website at actifi.com and don't forget to check out Quik! at quikforms.com where we make processing forms easy. I hope you enjoyed this discussion, and will click the Like button, share this with someone and subscribe to our channels for future episodes of The Customer Wins. Spenser, thanks so much for joining me today.

Spenser Segal 29:28 

Yeah, my pleasure.

Outro 29:31 

Thanks for listening to The Customer Wins podcast. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.