[Perspective Series] How Personality Coding Helps Businesses Increase Sales With Esther Wildenberg

2 hours ago

31 min read

Esther Wildenberg is the Co-founder and President of Codebreaker Technologies, a global leader in personality coding technology that helps businesses improve sales, communication, and relationships. She is an accomplished consultant, coach, advisor, and speaker with more than two decades of international executive experience. By age 33, Esther had become CEO of a European consulting company, where she led more than 800 employees. She is also the author of The Undermined Soul and is passionate about empowering leaders to reach their potential and create lasting impact.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

[2:18] Esther Wildenberg discusses how the BANK system uses personality science and buying behavior to help businesses grow
[4:05] A 90-second personality assessment designed to improve communication, negotiation, and sales
[6:36] Why understanding a customer’s personality code creates stronger connections
[9:05] Esther talks about the four B.A.N.K personality types
[13:34] How to create a shortcut for understanding customers and communicating more effectively
[16:41] Esther’s books, including Why They Buy, Make People Matter, and The Undermined Soul
[23:25] Developing a winner’s mentality, positive mindset, and mental strength through adversity
[29:15] AI, emotional intelligence, and the growing importance of authentic human connection

In this episode…

Businesses often struggle to understand why customers buy, how they prefer to communicate, and what ultimately motivates them to say yes. Traditional personality assessments may offer insights, but translating those insights into better sales conversations and stronger relationships can remain difficult. How can businesses quickly understand buying behavior and communicate with customers in ways that truly resonate?

Esther Wildenberg, an expert in personality coding, buying behavior, and communication, recommends identifying customers’ values and personality types to tailor sales conversations to how they naturally think and make decisions. She explains that understanding the full B.A.N.K sequence — Blueprint, Action, Nurture, and Knowledge — can help salespeople communicate, negotiate, and close more effectively. Esther also emphasizes strengthening authentic human connection, developing people skills as AI becomes more prevalent, seeking mentorship, and joining trusted communities where entrepreneurs can learn and grow together.

In this episode of The Customer Wins, Richard Walker interviews Esther Wildenberg, Co-founder and President of CodeBreaker Technologies, about using personality coding to improve sales and communication. Esther discusses overcoming adversity, preserving human connection in the age of AI, and the value of mentorship and masterminds.

Resources Mentioned in this episode

Quotable Moments:

“The main thing we do is help entrepreneurs and business owners make more money by the methodology system.”
“Everybody wants to be served better and save time. So it's very easy.”
“When you change the way you communicate, you now have a connection. There's synergy.”
“Who I am today is because of all the things that happened to me.”
“I lock in on what I believe is possible, and I don't let go of it.”

Action Steps:

Identify your customer’s buying behavior: Understanding what customers value and how they make decisions helps you tailor communication and create stronger sales connections.
Adapt your communication to different personality types: Speaking to customers in ways that resonate with their individual preferences can improve relationships and sales outcomes.
Strengthen your people and communication skills: Developing genuine human connections can help you remain valuable as AI becomes more integrated into business and everyday life.
Turn adversity into an opportunity for growth: Choosing to learn from difficult experiences can strengthen your mindset and help redirect your personal and professional path.
Seek mentorship and supportive communities: Learning from experienced mentors and participating in trusted mastermind groups can accelerate your leadership and business development.

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Episode Transcript:

Intro: 00:02

Welcome to The Customer Wins podcast, where business leaders discuss their secrets and techniques for helping their customers succeed and in turn, grow their business.

Richard Walker: 00:16

Hi, I'm Rich Walker, the host of The Customer Wins, where I talk to business leaders about how they help their customers win and how their focus on customer experience leads to growth. Some of my past guests have included Suvrat Bansal of Clarista, Sasha Strauss of Innovation Protocol and Josh DeTar of Tyfone. And today is a special episode of my Perspective Series to learn about new and different ways of thinking. And today's guest is Esther Wildenberg of CodeBreaker Technologies. And today's episode is brought to you by Quik!, the leader in enterprise forms processing.

When your business relies upon processing forms, don't waste your team's valuable time manually reviewing the forms. Instead, get Quik!. Using Quik!, you'll be able to generate completed forms and get back clean, context-rich data that reduces manual reviews to only one out of 1000 submissions. Visit quickforms.com to get started. All right, before I introduce today's guest, I want to give a big thank you.

And shout out to Kyle Gray of The Story Engine, who was a prior guest on my show. Go check out his website at the Storyengine.co to learn how to tell your story better. All right. Esther Wildenberg is committed to empowering women while leaving a sustainable legacy today and for the next generation. She also serves as co-founder and president of CodeBreaker Technologies, the world leader in personality coding technology.

Esther is an accomplished consultant, coach, advisor, and speaker with over two decades of international experience. She understands culture, diversity, inclusion, and the power of team like no other. Esther, welcome to The Customer Wins.

Esther Wildenberg: 01:54

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.

Richard Walker: 01:57

Oh, I'm, I am too. I was so happy to have met you and have you come on my show today? So for my audience who hasn't heard my podcast before, I love to talk to business leaders about what they're doing to help their customers win, how they built and deliver a great customer experience, and the challenges of growing their own company. So Esther, I want to understand your business a lot better. How does your company help people?

Esther Wildenberg: 02:18

Oh, in many ways, the main thing we do is help entrepreneurs and business owners make more money by the methodology system we invented and created ourselves. It's called the bank system. That's personality science based on buying behavior. So it's not psychology. It's all about focusing.

Who is your customer and why they buy. What's going to trigger a yes versus the no. And we help companies grow and scale ten x 300%. Like people really dig into it and they get big, big results. So that's the number one way we help customers.

Then we found out over time that they start making more money using our system, our technology, and go to our training. And then, of course, we have our own AI. I say, of course I don't think it right now everybody uses AI and has AI. We build our own AI. In 2018, launched it in 2019 before the big hype of AI.

And then people came back from, we are using it in our management team in leadership and communication and hiring. So our system started off in sales revenue and then really evolved into all the other areas of any business.

Richard Walker: 03:32

Nice. Okay. Look, I have to admit, I've done disc. I've done 34 strong Myers-Briggs. I think I've done all these different types of, you know, who am I, what am I?

I don't know what spirit animal I am that doesn't.

Esther Wildenberg: 03:44

Yeah. You're an animal. You're jam your color code. Yeah. I've not done them all to like management drives insights.

I think there are over 200 assessments out there.

Richard Walker: 03:53

There's got to be. Right. Yeah. And I know, I know some of them are like for team collaboration so that you know how to work with people better. How does your system help people actually make more money?

Like what is the insight you're giving them.

Esther Wildenberg: 04:05

That first is our assessment is only 90s or less instead of 45 minutes or an hour. It's very fast. It's value-based. So what do you value? What's most important to you, least important to you?

Sort for digital cards with only 12 values on it, 12 words. And you read the 12 words and there are four cards with 12 words; you sort them in order. But most important, to least important, it's literally less than a minute, you know, and it's very accurate. What we do next. It tells them everything about who they are and how they operate.

It's a very short bottom line report, but very extensive, extensive in the sense that it's so freaking accurate. That's like scary people's like, how do you know this much about me in one minute? And then that's not why we build it, because that's what all the other assessments do. We build it to generate a sales report. So our system sends out two reports at the same time, one to the customer or lead prospect that corrects their code and they reveal their personality type to you.

And then we send out another report to the salesperson, the business owner that gets the report, hey, this person just cracked their code. This is their bank code, and this is how to communicate, negotiate and close the sale. So that is where our uniqueness coming in is that it's in buying behavior, not psychology. It's value-based. And then it's 90s or less.

And there's two reports going out at the same time.

Richard Walker: 05:32

Okay. That's fascinating. So the customer is actually going through the process. And, if you're selling something, you're actually somehow getting your customer to say, I'm willing to do this test that shares this insight with you. So what kind of customer do you typically serve best with this model?

Esther Wildenberg: 05:48

The interesting part is we serve every industry and every client, everybody that is in sales, right? So we started. We're mainly focused on small business owners, entrepreneurs. So you have to think about financial services agents, real estate agents, chiropractors, attorneys. Like when people don't sell, they're not making money.

That is our biggest audience. And then we also train for some big corporations like Shell Gas and oil. Google, GoDaddy, Prudential Insurance, etc.

Richard Walker: 06:18

Oh my gosh. Because I'm just sitting there thinking we sell business to business. And so my customer might be a VP, a C-level, a director typically involved in the technology decisions of their company. I'm what you think I could get them to do this assessment, it seems.

Esther Wildenberg: 06:36

So yeah, in 20 years nobody ever said no. And I have a corporate background. So my consulting clients have been in the Fortune 500 before. I met my partner who owned the company. And then I partnered with her 13 years ago and then moved to the United States from the Netherlands to help her grow and scale this company.

And in all those years, every boardroom, family offices, Harvard, UC Berkeley, San Francisco State, UCLA, like they all did it. We all did lectures. They all loved it. We actually never get a no. And the reason is people are curious.

They want to know what this is, right? And then it's about them, their favorite subject. And then how we ask is such a no-brainer. Like it's like, yeah, we ask them to just sort the cards, look at this information, sort the cards so we can serve you better and save you time. And everybody wants that.

Everybody wants to be served better and save time. So it's very easy. And then companies, we tell them, you just tell them why you're doing it so you can communicate with them how they want to be communicated to instead of starting to talk in your own language, as we say in your own code, your own personality type. So you just start talking about how you see life and business. But the other side may have a different filter because there are different personality types.

So they're just like, no, yeah, cool what you're saying, but it doesn't resonate with me. So when you change the way you communicate, you now have a connection. There's synergy. So that's the power.

Richard Walker: 08:11

It's so funny. Like I, I tell all my guests, come on the show, there's no pressure to market or sell what you're doing. And I feel like I want this now. It's not even a sales pitch, but.

Esther Wildenberg: 08:21

That's how it goes. This house goes all the time because the first part is like, oh, another assessment. But we're not an assessment company.

Richard Walker: 08:30

No. Right.

Esther Wildenberg: 08:31

We're a training and technology company that serves small business owners. Entrepreneur is our main focus to help them increase their sales up to 300% by knowing their personality type of your customer and your client. And of course, then in-house, it's for the internal team, communication between departments, etc. So yeah.

Richard Walker: 08:51

So look, I remember when we first met, I had gone through the assessment. I cannot remember my score at this moment, and I'm sorry, I don't remember. So we could talk about it, but it is BANK. Can we talk about what those four things mean and what the order of those things mean?

Esther Wildenberg: 09:05

Yeah. So there are four personality types in our system. It's BANK. And the blueprint is the person. We give it the color blue for obvious reasons.

Blueprint is very focused on structure systems, traditional rules, you know, processes like they need everything dialed in and they don't like risk. They don't like change. They always need a money guarantee warranty system. They don't like to move things around at all. They're more cold to approach.

They're very formal. And then we have a very energetic action personality, a lot of energy. They have their own rules for everything. So they care about opportunity and action and image and competition and winning and playing big in life. They like to dress nice.

They like to hang out with cool people. Like they have. They are really the example of a great entrepreneur. They just go and hustle and grind and just want to be the best in this lifetime. And then you have to nurture.

We give it the color yellow for their very heart centered, like they have a heart of gold. Those are those sunshine people you meet that connect with everybody, talk to everybody. They make everybody feel good. They care about relationships, harmony, integrity, give back projects, charities serving, and great communication. Personal development.

We see them, of course, a lot in healthcare and nurses and school systems teachers like. So that's the nurture. And then there's the knowledge personality that we give the color green that they care about research and science and data and analytics and spreadsheets and knocking themselves out. They learn and learn and learn a lifetime. But you are all for.

The thing is, you're not just one, right? So in our system, you are a combination of all four. In my example, I'm n a, k, b, my n and a are equal, meaning I really care about people. Relationships give back to humanity and make a positive impact. But I'm very high driven.

I own two companies. I like nice things. I like to travel the world. Don't tell me what to do. Right?

And then my knowledge is third. So the stress code in our system is under stress. I will do research. I want to know about science. I go back to the big picture and then my blueprint is last.

I hire those people, system structures, procedures, I love them, I just don't want to build them. I don't want to create them. I don't want to live in that world. So that's in a nutshell what it stands for. So you have to compare it to, I think the best comparison I can give is when you May I have your debit card and you go into the ATM?

You need to put in a four digit PIN code to get money out, and you have to put it in the right order. Otherwise, it's going to suck up your card and you got nothing. No card and no money, right? Right. So the same with our system.

You need to know the full sequence of your customer lead prospects, their code for money to come out. So that's why we always tell people not to know just their primary, their most important or dominant code. You need to know all four. That's why I tell people to do the assessment. It's so short, it's so fast.

And the good news is, compared to all the other assessments, this one is actually easy and fast to learn and understand and implement right away into your business. And that's why it's got so much traction around the world. That's why we have been speaking around the world with Tony Robbins and Robert Kiyosaki and Liz Brown in the US, with all the sharks and the big names out there in the industries of the entrepreneurial space, because this went viral on simplicity, like genius is in simplicity. So that's where we're at as a company.

Richard Walker: 12:56

I love this, Esther. I really do because you think about a typical sales process. You're either trying to work with your sales team to understand what lead came in. You go research the person on LinkedIn and their company, try to get an assessment of, okay, how is this going to play out? You may have stereotypes that you try to draw from that are typically wrong.

And then you get into the call and if you're not prepped, you're in the call trying to figure it out. And you have all these different personality types. You have the guy who's like, I'm going to run this meeting for you, Rich. And I'm like, well, it's, I need to show you the demo, right? Or you have the person that's asking all the questions or not saying a word to you, and you don't know how to read them.

There's so many things going on, and it's like, this is such a shortcut.

Esther Wildenberg: 13:34

It is a shortcut. And so my partner launched the company in 2012, and I met her in 2013, and I joined the company in 2014. And I can tell you wherever we go, people are just like, wow, why? Why didn't nobody invent this faster and sooner? And so this came out of frustration of all the other assessments and steals, like not knowing how to sell and what to do and how to communicate.

And there is a shortcut and we have proven it over years. We have official white papers and research we specified in certain industries, automotive, financial services, and then a white paper for real estate. So we went into different areas. And then in 2024, we launched our foundation. Our mantra for our company is to take it to the bank and make people matter.

Like you really make them matter. When you communicate in a way they want to be talked to, right? And then our foundation is about making kids matter. And so our foundation is buy one, give one. So every customer that buys any of our subscriptions or products or services becomes a certified trainer.

We donate, give one to a school system or university so they can learn how to communicate with their children and the teachers and the parents, and know how to get most of those children at a young age, starting at the age of four and all the way up to university until graduation. So we have great, great stories of graduate students that cracked the code of the professor and now knew how to actually deliver their final exam or their little talk or whatever they had to do. Right. And we did it in a classroom. Now six is our son, and we did it with him when he was three and a half.

And at four, we taught the whole faculty of his school, 80 teachers, how to actually communicate with the children and then with the parents and then internally with each other. So yeah, it's very cool.

Richard Walker: 15:27

And now I have to bring this into my household. Now I've got to learn how to talk to one of my kids. It's hard to talk to. We butt heads constantly.

Esther Wildenberg: 15:33

You know, we have people coming back that come to our training to really grow their business. And they say, you know, this, this just saved my marriage. Like, I've been married for 20 years, but we've been communicating just the wrong way to each other. And then I became a better parent because now I understand how to parent them. I've been parenting the wrong way that they just don't resonate with the things I say.

And I changed my language and suddenly they do everything I ask.

Richard Walker: 15:58

I have always said that communication is one of the hardest skills to master, and it's something you'll continuously learn your whole life, and you can always improve on it. My CTO, when he joined my company a year and a half ago, we spent a year saying the exact same word with totally different meanings and each of us thinking we're on the same page, buying off like, oh, you're doing this. And yes, I get it. And we're on. And then one day we're like, Holy moly, we are not talking the same language at all because we had finally diverged and had the wrong outcome.

It took a year. Oh my gosh, I wish we had solved it sooner.

Esther Wildenberg: 16:31

We could have solved it in the 90s.

Richard Walker: 16:33

Right? Yeah. Okay, so look, I see your book in the background. Can we talk about your book?

Esther Wildenberg: 16:41

This is my book. We have two books in our company that's called Why They Buy. And one book is called Make People Matter. And then I wrote my own personal book. It's called The Undermined Soul.

That's my personal life journey, starting my career, going through a lot of heartbreak and things I went through in my lifetime, becoming an entrepreneur. All the setbacks, you know, the typical thing. And then there's a lot of lessons learned, great insights of my journey as for 25 years in business and became a number one bestseller. So I'm really excited about that.

Richard Walker: 17:15

That is awesome. When did you release the book?

Esther Wildenberg: 17:18

Last year.

Richard Walker: 17:19

Wow. Congratulations. Yeah. So what is your style of writing? Is it storytelling, parables?

Are these examples? And, you know, putting things out there for people to chew on? Exercise.

Esther Wildenberg: 17:31

I learned after I published my book, there's only actually three styles of authors. Okay. There's one that is the, the one that creates imagination like novels and storytelling, right? Then there is the one, the book, the author that delivers content. So the books for our company, why they buy them matter.

Our content right about learning how to about the four personalities, how to implement it in their business and in their personal life for dating, marriage, parenting, etc. and then there is the author that writes from through personal experience combined with content and then work to do that's more like a spiritual, you know, manifestation than just a book. So I'm in the last category for this book.

Richard Walker: 18:19

That explains my first book. Because my first book was complicated, I had to write it out. And I, I, I actually, the day after Thanksgiving till the day before Christmas is when I wrote it, I couldn't watch TV, I couldn't do anything. When I had spare time. It just flowed out.

It had to come out.

Esther Wildenberg: 18:37

Yeah, this house happened for me too. And the funny thing is how I even started to write this book because it was not even on my radar when my son said, what are we? When are we going to read your book? Because you knew my wife Sherry wrote two books, so he sees the books all the time. She says, where's your book and when are we going to read it together?

Because he likes to learn. And I said, I have a book and he looks at me, okay, now I guess you're going to write one then. And he was four and I'm like, okay, I guess it's time. And then I said, in meditation and then I got the title and I'm like, okay, now I've got the title. So now, so what now what?

And I, it just came. So between mid August, mid December is when I wrote my book in my spare time, but it was just flowing like I knew I had to put this on paper. I just never felt compelled to do it actually in reality, just more in my head. Yeah. So, you know, sometimes those kids just poke the bear and then I guess I have to listen.

Richard Walker: 19:39

I know the truth. Kids have truth. I don't want to put you through talking through the whole book or the stories, but you've had some really challenging times in your life. Are there any that you'd like to share? So people get a sense of like, really how dramatic this has been for you.

Esther Wildenberg: 19:56

There are multiple dramatic stories. You know, the glory is in the outcome afterwards, right? Like people say, I'm so sad that happened to you. And I'm like, no, it's actually the best thing that happened to me because I had to evolve. And who I am today is because of all the things that happened to me. If you know, I know a lot of people that seem to just fly through life and nothing happens, but also not accomplishing anything.

They're just like butterflies sitting on a bench all day and doing nothing. So I knew I had to go through it, but at the moment, of course, it's never fun. One big example is I had an accident at the age of 23. I just graduated from dentistry, the University for dentistry, and I started working. I actually hated it.

I got into it through my parents. Our neighbors were dentists, dental hygienists. So you know how that goes. Oh, this should be something for you. It'll be great. Like.

And you can make a lot of money, but, like, it makes a lot of money. Let's do it. I had no clue what I wanted to do. I just wanted to play sports and be outdoors. That was basically what I was mostly excited about so that whatever, I will do that.

So I went to the university and I thought, like, why in the world am I doing this? Like, I just don't even like any of it. But I finished like, as a good student, my dad told me, what you start, you finish. So I went through the whole freaking enchilada of the year studying something I really didn't like. I graduated, I started working, and a year later I was in a really bad accident with two motorcycles.

I was on my bicycle and ended up in the ICU for a few weeks. I had two near-death experiences, then for 4 or 5 months in the hospital recovering. And then of course, the rehab took a very long time. I was in a wheelchair a little bit. I had to learn to walk again.

Power built my strength. It took me three years to recover. It was for a very long time, almost eight years in the full body compression suit. It was like a disaster. And at the same time, through my two near death experiences and going into rehab, exploring a new world of possibilities, I also knew like, I'm going to do what I want to do, not what my parents want me to do or anybody else.

I'm going to live my life on my terms. So it shifted everything for me. I went into the corporate world, became very successful in corporate, and then started my own business in 2004 and my second business in 2008. And then in 2013, I started to build the company with my partner here in the US. And so yeah, it put me on the path where my life was supposed to go, not on the track I was on.

So, you know, was it hard? Yeah, it was hard. Of course it was hard. Like, but it made me what I am today. Yeah.

Richard Walker: 22:37

Yeah. I'm curious about something because I've been through some hard things. I had ten years of chronic back pain that was debilitating. I wasn't an accident like yours, But the doctors, I was their special case. They could never figure it out and tell me how to fix it.

And I got through it. And I had moments where I had to crawl to the bathroom like I just couldn't walk. And I don't know what it is. There's a new word I've learned. It's called pronoia.

When you think the world is conspiring for you. And I guess I've always been this ultra-optimist because I never gave up on going back to surfing, skateboarding, lifting weights, and the sports that I love, even though I couldn't do it for most of a decade. So in your experience, was it a choice that you made or was it just part of your being and your fiber, or was it instinctual? How do you get through that?

Esther Wildenberg: 23:25

I think there's. Instinctual. I was already playing sports. I wanted to win. There sort of was something with a positive mindset.

And I had this real drive of winning in life and winning in the game. I hated it when I lost a game like I really wanted to win. I was sad when I was losing, right? And later I learned when you have a child that cries when they lose, you create winners for life because they want to win in life. So it was the winner's mentality inside of me.

But everything happened in the time I was actually depressed and sad and actually didn't even want to live. So whatever happened there, in that moment where my whole life turned around, it just put me back into that positive mindset, and I just was really determined to just prove the medical world wrong and just get things going. It was not every day like that. There were days that I was like, F you all. Like, why is this happening to me?

But in general, it put me onto like, this is, you know, maybe in the first year or two, like I had to do the physical, a lot of physical recovery. So I had to put my mind into that. And then when I was walking and out in society again, I started to really work on my mental power by reading a lot of books. I listened to Tony Robbins in the hospital for months to his six DVDs he just published like the black box of six DVDs I had and I never. I just ordered it right before my accident.

And so I watched that. So it put me in a positive mindset, healing some of my childhood trauma. And that really just put me on the track of reading books, courses, seminars, webinars, like all that stuff. Right? So it all turned out to be a blessing.

But because of the choices I made, I believe it was really a choice because I've seen people going through a lot and they choose obviously differently and they end up in misery or even die because they just give up on life or give up on hope that it can be better again.

Richard Walker: 25:26

Yeah. I'm sorry I'm going off the deep end on this. So you listen to all these Tony Robbins. I listened to Tony Robbins when I was a teenager, starting college. And given the work that you and Sherry do, have you met Tony Robbins?

Have you partnered with their organization?

Esther Wildenberg: 25:41

There's a lot happening right now No. So when I met Sherry, he was actually on stage with Tony Robbins. So she spoke on a lot of stages around the world in Singapore, Malaysia, South Africa, Cape Town, then in Amsterdam, and then in LA and Chicago, Toronto. So we were on stage with Tony Robbins. Tony is very protective, so even the speakers could not connect with him.

But there was a moment when we were allowed to take pictures with him, and I talked to him in my 30s and never saw him again until in 2024. I think we met in 2016 backstage. And then in 2024, we had a Zoom call with Tony one-on-one talking about our business, and he said, I recognize you, he remembered. And it was really powerful, and he loves what we're doing. Then he talked to his corporate team last year.

They had a lot of projects, and we're back in conversation. So there's possibilities, let me put it that way.

Richard Walker: 26:44

Yeah, no, that's just awesome. I just think about when people outside your life have an impact and you eventually get to see them up close and meet them. It's special.

Esther Wildenberg: 26:53

Yeah. I told my story to him because we were talking about Cobra Technologies and about the bank system and really bringing it to his organization. And he's very excited about that. We're talking to a sales team right now. So there's but there's months in between, right? They're very busy.

They're scheduled out for more than a year ahead of time. So it's not like they were suddenly on the project on top or somewhere on the project list. I just don't know where we're at. But then I shared with him real quick my personal story. That really created that, that, that, that the circle came around like, okay, this happened in 1998 and now it's 2024 that I actually talked to you.

I've seen him many times in the audience in the VIP section and high-fiving and then backstage for pictures. And then that moment and I believe we're going to meet in person. I'm just going to manifest that it's going to happen. Like it's kind of inevitable in the journey of evolution, but it always takes what we want as entrepreneurs. Things right now.

And even though I think in life, people want things right now, I believe in the divine timing of a path. And so I know it's going to happen. I just don't know when. Yeah.

Richard Walker: 28:07

I'm so guilty of this. I will set huge visions that I will not let go of. I believe in them. I know they're going to happen. And it doesn't matter if anybody disbelieves, it doesn't approve of it, I don't care.

I lock in on what I believe is possible, and I don't let go of it. And I think that's one of the things about being an entrepreneur, or really what makes me an entrepreneur is because of that just self-belief and conviction. I'm going to get to where I want to be. Right? Yeah.

Esther Wildenberg: 28:37

And sometimes it takes a decade or longer. So it's not like, you know, put it on my vision board. Some things keep moving from my vision board to the next year because they didn't happen, but it doesn't mean it's not going to happen. I just have to move it to next year.

Richard Walker: 28:51

Yeah for sure. We're running out of time. But there's one other topic and this is totally a different topic. I talked to everybody about artificial intelligence and the impact it's having on things. So from your perspective, I mean, you've got this, this code breaking technology and it's really about how humans interact.

What do you see AI doing in that interaction or affecting that interaction?

Esther Wildenberg: 29:15

Now, that's why we launched early on, as our AI is built to connect on a deeper level with another human being to really understand them. So it's infused with emotional intelligence, understanding the other side of the table. And whatever reason, intuitively, we knew we had to do that. And now the world we're living in, I think the whole technology, AI is destroying humanity. And I think it only gets worse.

We are part of some masterminds. What they're talking about. I don't think people can handle what's going to happen next because AI, we cannot stop AI anymore. AI is becoming smarter than the human being and AI is starting to run our whole world, our life. I believe 90% of jobs will be gone.

I mean, 90% is going to be gone. So the only way you will have a job is if you build and own your own AI, or to become an incredible group of human beings who become this coach consultant that actually can help people to get out of freaking madness. Can you imagine 90% of the population that has no job? What are they going to do all day? So we need very strong people that can manage and operate in a society that can help these people to just, you know, live and not all start killing each other.

I think people have no clue what's going to happen. I think AI sounded very cool. I think the power of AI is freaking scary and it's unstoppable. And I think it can get to the level of destroying humanity. So we're very, very intentional.

I get goosebumps talking about it. We're very intentional trying to help humanity to really understand how to communicate and connect, because that's the only thing that can help humanity to exist and coexist. And so yeah, I think the world is gonna be just seeing the scratch, but it's, those masterminds are part of the rabbit hole that goes very deep. And I think the only conversation that really matters about AI moving forward is, is gonna, is it going to be protected? Is it going to be ethical or no, we just keep building and make as many as we can.

That's the only question that I think is going to be the only one that really matters at the top right now.

Richard Walker: 31:46

You know, this is interesting. I'll tell you, I don't fully share that belief that AI will displace everybody. I wonder what we're going to end up with.

Esther Wildenberg: 31:53

It is in some rooms I'm sitting in.

Richard Walker: 31:56

No, I know, I get it, I get it, and I've had a lot of these different debates and it's not like I'm closed off to that, that outcome. I just I'm not that far down that path, I would say. So where I see AI going is helping software create judgment, where software is controlling what the AI does in terms, I think in terms of business and workflows and automations, etc.. And I'm not thinking so far about how many robots could do plumbing, you know, that kind of stuff.

Esther Wildenberg: 32:20

So, you know, it helps a lot of people in the daily operations if you want to keep it very simple for the average human being that can understand what we're talking about is like, it's going to help you with your marketing, with your finances, with your groceries, with whatever you need to do. Right? So it's a great assistant. And what I'm also noticing is that people already start backing up out of it because everything feels like AI right now. And I read right through it.

Like, if you just send me an AI message, I'm not going to reply.

Richard Walker: 32:50

Right?

Esther Wildenberg: 32:51

You're just like, not going to happen. If I get an AI-generated blast email, I don't care who you are. I'm not going to respond to it. And I think this is already happening. Social media people get annoyed.

Is this image real or fake? Is this real? Is this podcast like everything has everything is questioned right now? And so what always happens, it depends on them going here and then it will come back. So I believe we're a little bit on that.

Some people are realizing like, okay, I just want to communicate with a human being. I want to go to in-person events. I want to have a phone call. I really actually want to connect. And that's, you know.

Richard Walker: 33:30

I'm there for Esther because last night I was at my mastermind group and I was talking about this with another member that, you know, I feel with all the Zoom meetings are two dimensional. I'm a remote company now, so all my employees are two dimensional. I don't get to see them very often in person.

Esther Wildenberg: 33:45

I work with our company. Everybody is, you know, we're decentralized, so everybody's working from their home. And it's like, I have this, you know, 2D relationship for those people. But you know, that's why I'm aching for in-person connection.

Richard Walker: 34:01

Yeah, I, I feel like you miss that exchange of energy that happens in person. And that's why I won't give up my mastermind group because it's so valuable and valuable to me to be in person with them talking about things and just.

Esther Wildenberg: 34:14

I know that's the best advice we can give every entrepreneur. She and I are part of three masterminds, high level masterminds. We have our own mastermind. It's more like a syndicate. It's above mastermind, where people with high level seven, eight, nine figure income earners really talk about life and business in all forms of wealth, not just money.

All eight that are important in life. And so that's the best. If I join a mastermind. Be part of something where you feel safe and you can share what's happening in your personal life, in business, what's happening into the future. Like so you just have this synergy of like minded people where you just can always go back to.

Richard Walker: 34:51

Yeah. So maybe I'm still an optimist by closing the loop on this, but I actually believe that AI is going to create so much efficiency that we just work less time and have more time to get outside and be with each other. Yeah.

Esther Wildenberg: 35:03

And I agree that in the next three years, in the next 5 to 10 years, it will go all the way that you don't. They don't need you anymore. You don't need it anymore unless you're incredible with people and communication. Yeah, yeah. Like that.

That is going to be the savior. So when I talk at universities, I tell them the best skill you can develop right now is people.

Richard Walker: 35:30

Communication. Understanding. Yeah. Look, I, I have to get to my last question before I get there. What's the best way for people to find and connect with you?

Esther Wildenberg: 35:40

They can go to our website, codebreaker.com, or they can find me on LinkedIn as Esther Wildenberg. There. Not that many, so that's easy to find. You can find me on social media. I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, all the platforms.

And I have my own website as estherwildenberg.com. That's also easy. Just my name and then.com. Can I go? Awesome.

That's just the easiest way to connect. Find your favorite way to connect, and you will find me there.

Richard Walker: 36:11

Awesome. So we'll have all that in the show notes. Anybody can come to our site and see it. All right. I love this last question.

It's my favorite one to ask all of my guests. Who has had the biggest impact on your leadership style and how you approach your role today?

Esther Wildenberg: 36:25

Now I have two. There's not just one; I have way more, but two that stand out. And I talk about a lot. One is the CEO of a corporation in the Netherlands I worked for as a consultant. After my accident, I built up my career, and I started working for her company.

The female founder has 800 employees. She built an empire, and I asked her when I started in that company if she would mentor me. And she said, nobody ever asked that question. And I said, I'm just asking. I know your time is valuable, but like 30 minutes a week or an hour every two weeks.

And she says, we're doing that. So every Friday I met her either for lunch or in the office, and then she brought me with her on her big client appointments at Shell, Unilever, and IBM. And I skyrocketed in that business. I became the most successful person in that company.

Richard Walker: 37:16

I love it.

Esther Wildenberg: 37:17

And so I always give her credit because she mentored me. And it really put such a big foundation on my leadership style, on my business building skills, and turning around companies that I do right now. And then the other one that's been through my whole lifetime has been Tony Robbins. I've been following him since 1998. I've been to a lot of his events.

I've seen him speak more than 20 times in all the conferences we have been to and part of. So his style really resonates, and his story and a lot of things people don't know about Tony, but his story goes very deep, and he is a really good guy. Like really in Out of Integrity, really wants to help people, genuinely cares. So those are my two that I will go to at all times.

Richard Walker: 38:05

No, I love it. I love it, man, that I, I wish, I wish every, everybody graduating college would hear that part about you went to the leader of your company and said, Will you mentor me? Just ask. Just try.

Esther Wildenberg: 38:17

Yeah, be that one that asks because nobody does. It's like, yeah, stand up. Right. Ask a question nobody asks or do something nobody else does.

Richard Walker: 38:26

Yeah.

Esther Wildenberg: 38:26

I just stand out. There to raise your hand above the you know, just go.

Richard Walker: 38:33

Well, I like to say be so ignorant that you just try it anyway.

Esther Wildenberg: 38:37

Right?

Richard Walker: 38:37

Don't know the rules that you're breaking. Who cares? Just go try it anyway, I love that. So thank you for sharing that.

Esther Wildenberg: 38:43

Yes.

Richard Walker: 38:43

All right. I do have to wrap up the show. I've really enjoyed this. So I want to give a big thank you to Esther Wildenberg, co-founder and president of CodeBreaker Technologies, for being on this episode of The Customer Wins. Go check out their website at Codebreakerglobal.com.

And don't forget to check out Quik! at quickforms.com where we make processing forms easier. I hope you enjoyed this discussion. We'll click the like button, share this with someone, and subscribe to our channel for future episodes of The Customer Wins. Esther, thank you so much for joining me today.

Esther Wildenberg: 39:13

Thank you for having me. It was very joyful.

Outro: 39:17

Thanks for listening to The Customer Wins podcast. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.

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