Chip Kispert is the Founder and Managing Partner of Beacon Strategies, LLC, a consulting firm servicing broker-dealers, asset managers, and supporting vendors. He is a 20-year veteran of the broker-dealer and asset management marketplace. Chip specializes in data management-centric supply strategy and implementation expertise in the form of infrastructure evolution. Before Beacon, he was Vice-President of Sales for Trust Company of America and held senior sales and business development roles at Fidelity Investments for four years.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
Chip Kispert talks about how Beacon Strategies, LLC helps people
Weaving processes and technology together for better customer experiences
The value of understanding your own processes
The challenges wealth advisors want to solve
Chip speaks about the Beacon Strategies’ roundtables and their impacts
The impacts of AI on customer experience in the wealth management industry
In this episode…
The enterprise wealth management industry is constantly evolving, posing obstacles and opportunities. As an advisor, how can you identify and avoid these impediments and make your firm more profitable and productive?
According to Chip Kispert, it's fundamental for an advisor to collaborate with enterprise wealth firm leaders, marketplace solution providers, and other prominent industry experts. For this to happen, they need support, people who can coach them through disruptive times, aligning business strategy and vision. He shares his journey as the bridge between enterprise wealth firms and solution providers.
In this episode of The Customer Wins, Richard Walker sits down with Chip Kispert, Founder and Managing Partner of Beacon Strategies, LLC, to discuss how to be relevant in the dynamic enterprise wealth management industry. Chip explains how Beacon Strategies help wealth management firms, the value of understanding your own processes, the challenges advisors want to solve, and the Beacon Strategies’ roundtables.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Welcome to The Customer Wins podcast where business leaders discuss their secrets and techniques for helping their customers succeed and in turn grow their business.
Richard Walker 0:16
Hi, I'm Rich Walker, the host of The Customer Wins where I talk to business leaders about how they help their customers win and how their focus on customer experience leads to growth. Some of our past guests have included Geoff Moore of Valmark Financial Group, and Parham Nasseri of Investorcom, both of whom I met because of today's guests. And today I'm speaking with Chip Kispert, managing partner at Beacon Strategies. Today's episode is brought to you by Quik! the leader in enterprise forms automation, when the last step to earn your clients business requires filling out paperwork, don't ruin a good relationship with a bad experience. Instead, get Quik Forms to make filling out forms a great experience and easiest part of your transaction, visit quikforms.com To get started. Now before I introduce today's guest, I have to give a big shout-out to Marc Butler, who's a longtime friend of both Chip and I, and who has had a tremendous impact on us both. If you haven't seen Marc's latest solution, go check out Wealth Management GPT it's chat GPT for Wealth Advisors. All right, I'm super excited to introduce someone who has been helping the wealth management industry grow for as long as I could remember, ever since his college internship where he tracked bonds on an institutional fixed-income desk Chip Kispert has been committed to the wealth management industry. His entrepreneurial spirit and desire to chart his own path led him to found Beacon Strategies, LLC, with a simple foundational goal of acting as the bridge between enterprise wealth firms and solution providers. Chip remains the go-to consultant helping wealth firms deliver on their strategic objectives, and build out infrastructures that support their growth ambitions. Chip and the Beacon Strategies team worked with hundreds of well firms and fintechs in various capacities, including my own, including consulting roundtables and product management. Building upon his consulting relationships, Chip designed, implemented and continues to host the enormously popular beaconed roundtable series, which serves as a hub for industry leaders to network share ideas and collaborate on critical wealth management topics, including compliance, operational excellence, innovation, investments, marketing and more, and tech, which I love. So Chip, welcome to The Customer Wins.
Chip Kispert 2:25
Richard, thank you for having me, I am thrilled to be here.
Richard Walker 2:29
So if you haven't heard this podcast before I talk with business leaders about what they're doing to help their customers win, how they built and deliver a great customer experience and the challenges to growing their own company. Chip, I want to understand your business a little better. How does your company help people?
Chip Kispert 2:45
It's a great question. Because really, if we go back and you're very nice introduction of me actually tells you what we do. So when we started the business, too many years ago, it was really, really simple. We wanted to be the bridge between enterprise wealth firms, and solution providers slash product companies. And I'll tell you why. I believe that those sides speak different languages. And they're sometimes and many times needs to be an interpreter in the middle. And we serve that capacity. We, because of kind of our business models made up of consulting roundtables, and then we have a couple of our own services we offer. And we have a broad reach within the enterprise wealth space. I mean, our typical customers come out of insurance broker-dealers, bank programs, independent broker-dealers, regionals, solution providers that support them. So our touch is quite large, add in the round tables, and we're able to get some really, really interesting perspectives, see trends that are coming out, see what's working and what's not. And as I've always liked to say, You got to dig it out of the dirt. So, we like having our hands in projects that help us better understand the challenges that well firms have going forward. And I think, if we look in the last five years, there's been probably more evolution in terms of the customer expectation of advisors and the companies they've worked for, than I've seen throughout my whole career, quite frankly, and that's really going from the advisor expecting everything needed name to now having a more balanced approach of advice, basically the customer wanting the advisor interaction but yet also wanting to have a digital platform and quite frankly, many investor customers are looking and part of their requirements process of choosing advisor is all right well what Are your tools that you'll offer me? Well, how can I check my portfolios? How can I check that were aligning to my goals? And it's really what have you done for me recently that, yes, they want that interactive, need any discussion, but they also want to have a really good platform. And then they want to talk about with their friends and everybody else on social media, and you weave all that together, right?
Richard Walker 5:25
Man, there's so much there. One of the things I want to say is that I don't think of you guys, as consultants, I know you do consulting. But I think it'd be more as like the glue in our industry. Because you've had such a strong focus on our industry, you talk to so many different types of companies, you have this perspective that you bring to the table. So I applaud you for having this really direct focus on wealth management. But also what you said earlier, you're helping people translate, I used to say, I speak English and geek, you're helping people translate what their needs are to technology. So I want to understand that a little bit better, like how do you engage with technology and help them see what that means to them?
Chip Kispert 6:04
Well, Richard, can you know this better than anybody, right? It all comes down to requirement. And that's a very cavalier over-the-top statement. But the reality is, what do you want to do? Right? So when we go into a solution, or excuse me, when we go into a wealth firm, we're like, all right, well, tell us what your business model is, what your strategy is. And from there, we're like, all right, tell us about your tech stack. Tell us about your processes. We have people love to talk about what people process tech, right? We tend to look at it as process tech people. First and interesting reasons, quite frankly, because the people aspect sometimes are the least what's the word I want to use? They're the people aspect of it is changeable about that. But when you have good process that you've worked through, and you have good tech to weave together, then we're starting to really look at all right, this is your strategy. Here's your infrastructure to support that. Where your gaps, where are you doing well, right. Invariably, they're doing well, because they've had success, right, they wouldn't have $5 million dollars or more, they wouldn't have 150 500 1000 2000 20,000 reps, but everybody kind of can improve. So we really kind of figure out those gaps. And then we're able to say, okay, based on that, here's process that you should look at filling. And then here's solution providers that fit into that many times we run RFPs and RFIs to get to that, and more and more, we're helping a little bit with the implementation side of it, though, I'll be honest, it's not my favorite thing to do. Because I got to tell you implementations are heavy lifting, they are heavy lifting. Because you're gonna, actually, we have a visual that we use, and it's, you know, it's kind of this lovely runway down to the beach, right? And everybody's happy, and I signed the deal. And then you start to wade in the water, and then you start to go deeper, and there's weeds and old cars and things like that down there. And then he come out on the other side with his beautiful city and beach. But there's a lot of deep water you got to go through first.
Richard Walker 8:36
Yeah. Now that is hard that implementation is a hard part. But I'm also thinking, I mean, you're doing the RFP is and request for information. So it's not like you're sponsored by a tech firm to say go push my product into a firm's need right?
Chip Kispert 8:51
No we are 100% independent. And it was interesting for years said yet Amanda is a great friend of mine, he founded and trader, and he wanted me to do more and more help for him, right? And I'm like, no, we're independent. I am not doing that. And so when we look at it's very important for us to be independent. Because when we look at the marketplace, we don't see a lot of independent perspective, right? Everybody's got a bias. Everybody's got, you know, a profit margin X that they're trying to grind. We really don't, because we look at everybody equally. And it's based on merit. And further when we go against the RFP as RFIs. It's simply based on all right, how'd you answer the questions? Well, how did the demo go? All this is scoring, its quantitative. And sure we add in our qualitative on the backside of our recommendations, and our vast experience. But we try to keep everybody independent.
Richard Walker 10:05
Yeah, I think you said something else that was really important that leads to that ability. And that is to understand the process. I can't tell you how many customers I've talked to where they're looking to us for our solution, trying to understand what we can provide to them, but they actually don't know their own process yet. And oftentimes, that leads to a nine or 12-month sales cycle for me on an enterprise side, because they haven't defined the steps they need. They've got to figure that out.
Chip Kispert 10:29
You're right. You're right. What we see a lot of times, they have a problem, right? In many instances, quite frankly, they don't even know the scope of the problem. They have a problem. And traditionally, what we've seen are the shiny metal fishing lures get, let me grab those up. That's cool. That's really cool. And then there's, it's a challenge kind of weaving those in. Again, that's where we start with process, right? What's the process? What are your requirements? And then we're able to say, hey, this tech matches up against that. And that's a big challenge. Because you look at a lot of the large RIA's, even new RIAs, you look at the Beegees Sure, they're evolving. But you look at that RIA side, they don't always have really sophisticated tech people, right. From a business standpoint, they understand what they want to do. But they'll always know how to get there with process and tech. Yeah, we help them with that. Right. And we help broker-dealers with that as well. Yeah,
Richard Walker 11:36
by you helped us with that. We hired you guys to help us look at our sales process and how we were thinking about things. And man, did you uncover some sunken cars that we hadn't realized. And it was super valuable to us, it really helped us think about our business better and improve how we do things. And we're a tech firm, obviously, in the same industry. So, I totally appreciate how you look at that. I also had a quote on my whiteboard for the longest time. So it's still burned in my skull, which is efficiency stems from great design. And again, I go back to this thing of process, because that's my first step to what is the process that you're going to go through. So now let's twist this a little bit to something else you said, which is the need for automation, yet the need to have need any discussions or belly-to-belly discussions. And I find this industry is kind of stuck in this quandary. I think, between wait, let's go fast. Let's make it smooth. Let's make it easy to well, wait, this is all about relationships. This is all about us talking to each other? How are you seeing this unfold? What do you think the future is going to be for companies? And how do they navigate this?
Chip Kispert 12:42
So a lot of this comes down to the business model. Right? So if we look at the advisory side of the business, and we look at say, hey, we look at an Advisor with 5 billion under management, they have some working capital, right? And you look at, all right, as these advisors get to be bigger, 5 10 15 20 100 billion, or under management, right, they have more options. Now we look at the broker-dealer marketplace, where they need to do a lot, they're starting to be called on to have a wirehouse experience. But from a business model, they're not getting as much, right. They're working off margins that are very, very thin. So their choices are much more frugal many times. And sure the LPLs of the world, the adviser groups of the world with their new name, the ones that are well capitalized, they can do more. But you look really at kind of the mid-sized broker, dealer, small broker-dealer, they're getting squeezed, quite frankly. And it comes down to resources, it's people getting the best people, as well as being able to afford and technology and actually spend the time and resources to figure out what are our requirements? And what are our processes that we want to implement?
Richard Walker 14:10
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot to this question and really the state of our industry. So I'm kind of curious, when you work with companies to help them look at their process, try to find the right tech find the right people to fit into the positions. How much of that is driven by your customers desire to improve the customer experience, versus say, bottom line got to generate more revenue or lower cost and things like that? How are these companies thinking do you see?
Chip Kispert 14:38
Yeah, so it's firm by firm, right? So the buzzword over the past few years is hey, we got to upgrade the customer experience. What does that mean? Right? What does that mean? Now, as you see PE firms come into the wealth space. They want to cut expenses. They want to enabled growth. And what does that look like? Right? So from a priority standpoint, there's a lot of heavy lifting these firms have to do to better understand their priorities. Right. So firm we recently we've been working with really kind of three things they wanted to focus on, we want a better customer experience. Right? We want to have more automation, in terms of streamlining. And you know, at the end of the day, we want an economic model that's going to work for us. So those were our Northstar, so to speak right. So those are the things we're trying to put together from a strategy standpoint, as we help this particular firm. Others are like, hey, I need to be able to reach the client with some sort of quality interactive experience. Okay, great. Folks, do it well, today, especially the wire houses, do it better. But from an energy standpoint, and RIA standpoint, there's room for growth there. Right. But again, it comes down to what are the needs? And there's not one specific need out there? I don't believe I believe based on leadership, based on board influence. And here's the other one regulatory, right. So if somebody has gotten lit up from a regulatory perspective, where are they going to spend money? Yeah,
Richard Walker 16:30
right? No, of course, I the reason I think about this is because I learned and trying to create the right messaging for our own product, that when I talked about saving money, like we did a time-motion study, we could save you $15,000 per year per advisor, that kind of stuff that fell flat, nobody cared. We talked about customer experience. That's what they cared about. They wanted to say, how do we improve the experience of our end investor and our advisor and our back office? Because they're feeling that need to create more loyalty to drive growth through that.
Chip Kispert 17:01
But Rich, you make a really, really interesting comment there. Right you're talking about, hey, we did the time and motion study, right? I love time emotion sites, we could done a ton of them early in my in Beacons universe, right? In our Genesis. But when I look at that, you have different audiences, you need to appeal to. So the CEO knows, simply want, hey, give me something I can roll out at my advisor conference in September, right? They want Chief Operating Officer head of ops, a good piece of infrastructure that I can become more efficient with, right? And then you got the compliance side, give me something that I can go over the data that I can find, start to have flags, right. And then you get the CFO, where your time and motion study times whatever amount of transactions or whatever is meaningful to them. Right? So there's so many different audiences within the space, I find it fascinating. And I find that many solution providers actually really struggle, because they don't have different storylines, per se, different sets of content for the different audience.
Richard Walker 18:27
So part of that I feel in my own experience is that we don't get to talk to all those different types of people at the same firm, maybe across a whole bunch of firms, we might get somebody who's financially motivated versus tech motivated versus customer success motivated. But we don't have that same kind of contact level you have when you go into a firm and start working across all the silos of their organization. So do you think it's just about messaging? Or do you think it's exposure?
Chip Kispert 18:54
One of the things we look at is, and yes, our perspective is different, right? Because we walk in, and we're like, all right, well, how's this impacting the financial side of the business? Right? Yeah. But what are you guys struggling? So we have the ability to ask lots of questions. On the flip side of that, I look at providers, right, having the opportunity. Yes, they may be talking to head of advisor product, right, or they may be talking to head of operations, to be able to plug their set of solutions in. But I think it's also important that they're aware that when you're having those that you're thinking about, well, how does this impact finance? How does this impact your chief marketing officer, right? How does this impact the different buckets and make them think about that? Because now you're becoming a thought leader for them?
Richard Walker 19:57
Yeah. All right. Let me ask you a totally different question. The roundtables I feel are amazing. And I think you created a really wonderful experience for the participants of the roundtable. So I'm curious how you thought about that, how you came up with this, and really what you think are the keys to creating this awesome experience.
Chip Kispert 20:15
So first and foremost, I need to give kudos to a few people. All right. Peter Montoya is one. I know you know Peter, and Megan McCartan, okay, and Megan's now Chief Marketing Officer, Hightower. Peter was actually the one that started these roundtables. And it was one, it was called Tech retreat. And it was back in 2009 maybe. He very quickly came to the determination that while he loved the idea and what these represented, he wasn't maybe the person to lead it forward. Right. He had too many other obligations. Right. And so then Megan McCartan and I partnered on these up until about two and a half, three years ago. And when she took her new role, so they really helped provide the foundation for these. And now, we've had the opportunity, 1314 years doing this right, to be able to create a type of format, that's very, very different from anything in the industry. And you are at our recent roundtable, we really work to create a small, intimate group, but have leaders there, that really can dig into our case studies, people share information. In some ways, it's people baring their souls on certain things. And then we get interactive discussion, right? Because my whole thing when I was looking at these, I would hate to go to conferences, because they would be 90-degree deflections, right. And you have 15 seconds to make an impression, right? And that's number one, I want people sitting down around a round table, because when I went to high school, we had round tables, right? We didn't have the traditional desks, right? So I want people to be having interactive discussions, I want our solution partners and our product partners to be equal in that discussion with our wealth firm attendees, because they all have something to offer. Now, if people get too salesy, I might step in and maybe cut them off at the knees a little bit. But that's all good fun, right? But really, what we want is a dialogue. And we want a dialogue last 36 hours. And I think you kind of saw that, right? Whether we're around the round table, or we're having meals, it's sitting around talking to people.
Richard Walker 23:00
It is, it is one of the things that happens to me when I've gone to your roundtables is part of me goes in there going, I don't know what I'm going to say, I don't know what value I can add to these people. They're so smart, they're so successful, what can I possibly add? And then the conversation starts and you feel like, wait, no, I do have perspective on this. And maybe I can add to this. And then it just takes off. It takes a life of its own, which is really amazing and fun. And then you hear these totally different perspectives you've never heard before. I was sitting down to lunch with Aaron Spradling, who was at the last one that was with, yeah, and just asking him questions about something he was working on. And boom, lights went off in my head, because we had that conversation that is leading to something else. So yeah, it's really incredible how that kind of conversational capability. And I still don't know how you did it exactly.
Chip Kispert 23:52
What do you mean by that?
Richard Walker 23:54
I actually, when I think hard to read, I think part of it is you craft a narrative in a sense, like this was the innovators roundtable. So it had a theme, you broke us out into individual groups to have, what if scenarios, and break down conversation, right. So you're right is very different than a typical conference. And I think that these things, also the hotel, the venue that you chose, I think that adds a lot to the experience as well, because we had great food, great ambiance, great environment. So I want to give you kudos for that. But I also want to just address it because when you create success for your customer, it's in large part because I think you created an awesome experience, or at least an experience that didn't detract from what you're trying to get across in that event.
Chip Kispert 24:44
Yeah, everything that we focus on is the experience. Right? So and Sarah Fisher has been just unbelievably helpful. She's basically taken over the running of these things from the infrastructure standpoint over the last two years, and we're looking for that user experience to be something that they don't have anywhere else. They just don't. And that ranges, and you talked about the hotels and the food guests, that's important. But like our books that we hand out, like we had a 70-page books that have profiles, they have face pages, they have the community questions, all these different pieces of the puzzle to be able to put together. And you are absolutely right, literally, every decision we make goes through the lens of what, how is the user going to perceive this? Right.
Richard Walker 25:45
So part of the reason I bring this up Chip is I think, if any Wealth Advisors are out there listening to this, and they do dinner parties for their clients, once a year or something, they should take some notes from this, they should hand out a book of who their clients are to each other. So they can say you should be meeting these people. Because I've been to some of those dinners, and they can be fantastic. Or they can be pure sales sponsored by some product company or something. Yeah. Hey, I want to ask you one other totally different question. And it's, it's a topic that I'm in love with. I've been working on artificial intelligence for the last year and a half or so. And I'm curious, from your perspective, you got this broad perspective over the industry? How do you see AI changing or impacting customer experience in our world?
Chip Kispert 26:27
So you were at our discussion that Innovators for one, two live discussion probably five, six times a week, right? I think we're in a couple different phases, right? I think we're in the widget phase, honestly, people coming out with kind of the widgets that we're looking at, I think we're seeing AI become more and more woven into the thinking of firms. They don't quite know what that means. I think on the investment side, we're seeing signs, I think, as you look at kind of the robo in portfolios, you know, Jamie diamonds coming out and saying, hey, we're doing this that next thing, right? And then we're looking at it and say, hey, what can it be? And I think that's the phase that we're at today. Because, again, we go back to requirements, right? How do you want to use it? I think the big areas that we'll see benefit from our areas of service, I think service is going to be huge, because we're going to have the ability to basically figure out, hey, is a customer happy or not? And do I need to be spending more time with a customer? And it's all going to be data-driven? Right? And when we look at artificial intelligence, all right, maybe it's business rules, maybe it's but you get the idea. It's going to become bigger and bigger. But at the end of the day, guess what? The advisor is still the one giving the advice. And they are the one that are crafting and polishing the deliverable is to their customers.
Richard Walker 28:08
Right? I am seeing that kind of consensus with people I've talked to on this podcast, as well as people at the roundtable, et cetera, that you're never going to replace the advisor, and their ability to navigate sticky, emotional, challenging psychological drama that's going on with their clients, even whatever their AI numbers tell them to say or do. Right.
Chip Kispert 28:29
Right. But you look at the things that, maybe Riskalyze, excuse me a Nitrogen is doing with a Risk Number. Right? They, hey, this data tells me my risk score is x, right? I think we're at the tip of the spear with all of us. Right? But I also think that, if you look at the big wirehouses, yeah, they're gonna be farther ahead of this game. If you look at the normal RIA, if you look at many broker-dealers, the majority of broker-dealers out there currently, this is something that's trajectory up there. And quite frankly, they're working on automation. Hey, how do I open an account online? Right? Yeah. Do I think it'll come it will come, but it's, I don't know. Do you remember so Robo? That was going to take out the advisor? Yeah, Blockchain that was. And I think there's a lot of hype here. And if you look at read the quarterly reports, everybody's got to talk about AI or their stock price gets whacked, right? I think we're in the, what can it do for us? And I think by firm that's different. I mean, we have customers there every other day. They're calling me hey, what can we do? You know, what can we do with AI? Can we generate content, can we just make everything in the business. I'm like, whoa, whoa, don't lose you. But it's all right, figure out what your requirements what you need. And we can go from there.
Richard Walker 30:11
No, perfectly said, perfectly said, look, as we wrap this up, I do have one more question that I want to ask what's the best way for people to find and connect with you Chip?
Chip Kispert 30:22
They can go to our website, obviously beaconstrategiesllc.com. They can get in touch with me via LinkedIn. Chip Kispert? That's another way to do it. We have a Twitter handle Beacon FogHorn DM me, and I'm pretty easy to get ahold of. So, it's one of those things we love. We love chatting with people. And quite frankly, probably half my conversations are as we say, hey, just call I'm not gonna charge anything. Got some ideas, you just want to bounce off us happy to do that. If there's something there, then we can talk about later. But we love talking about the industry. I mean, some of our products, we've rolled out benchmark as an example where anonymously, we're enabling wealth firms to compare themselves against other wealth firms. That's cool stuff, right? We're even looking at university, which is our curriculum, right, we find that most solution providers really don't understand the intricacies of the wealth management business, right. What's FINRA? What's the SEC, what are the different products? What are some of the products, right? So we get into a lot of that. But by and large, we're easy to get over.
Richard Walker 31:43
Yeah, and you are exactly what you say you are easy to talk to straightforward. No BS.
Chip Kispert 31:51
It's one of those things where I think early in my career, I was in the corporate world. And it doesn't happen overnight, but people get what they see right now.
Richard Walker 32:02
That's awesome. All right. Here's my last question Chip. Who has had the biggest impact on your leadership style, or how you approach your role?
Chip Kispert 32:10
So he gave me a little heads up on this 25 30 minutes ago? And I've been kind of, it's been processing in the back of my head. Right. And it's not any one person. I don't think. I think that it's a kind of a bouquet of people through my career. And through my life, I think I look at my parents, I looked at my, you know, my mom and dad that obviously, there's influenced there. I look back earlier on my career there's fella by the name of Jeff Lynch, who was with Fidelity, who opened my eyes to the intricacies of the financial side of the business. And I look at our customers, right, I look at Mary Nelson at Allstate, who I learned an incredible amount from her and how she delegates and how she looks at problems. And I look at someone like at Jeff Ptak. Who is at Morningstar, right? How he thinks about his advice, personal advisory council. So to answer your question, I believe it's an easy one, I look at my own staff, quite frankly, and the time they've had in the business, the leadership that they've done, and I think it's a bootcamp, quite frankly.
Richard Walker 33:33
Well, I think the important thing that you're really illustrating to people is that you're open, you are seeking knowledge, therefore you receive it. And you're looking at everybody around you who can impact you. And I think that's a beautiful thing.
Chip Kispert 33:46
We like to say within our organization, be curious. Be curious, because everybody can learn something new every day. They should.
Richard Walker 34:02
Yeah, no, that is the truth. All right. Let's wrap this up. I want to say a huge thank you to Chip Kispert, managing partner at Beacon Strategies for being on this episode of The Customer Wins. Go check out Chip’s website at beaconstrategiesllc.com. And don't forget to check out Quik at quikforms.com where we take the work out of paperwork. I hope you've enjoyed this discussion, will click the like button, share with someone subscribe to our channel for future episodes of The Customer Wins. Chip, thank you so much for joining me today.
Chip Kispert 34:30
Rich, thank you for having me, and I look forward to hopefully being invited back.
Thanks for listening to The Customer Wins podcast. We'll see you again next time. And be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.